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	<title>Comments on: How Anti-Religious &#8220;Defenders&#8221; of Science Hinder Science</title>
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	<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:35:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Collin Brendemuehl</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/#comment-21054</link>
		<dc:creator>Collin Brendemuehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 15:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12203#comment-21054</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s also not forget the variety of scientific methods.  The &quot;scientific method&quot; is of modest use today.  Several model structures dominate the landscape for the evaluation of evidence.  What is most disturbing is the incoherence that demands empiricism of the theist while minimizing empiricism in general use.  (A. Plantinga addressed this in his recent book.)

Eric has stated correctly the inductive nature of much of science.  It is about the inference to the best explanation.  But is it always so dialectical -- tear down the new paradigm?  Maybe -- but that&#039;s a matter of historical analysis.  The problem is -- models are largely non-falsifiable.  They are not like The Method where a negative constraint can show one to be false.  Instead they require alteration to the model, and that gets far more complicated.  (I need to read up on modern concepts of falsifiability as Popper&#039;s material applied, generally speaking, to a different system.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s also not forget the variety of scientific methods.  The &#8220;scientific method&#8221; is of modest use today.  Several model structures dominate the landscape for the evaluation of evidence.  What is most disturbing is the incoherence that demands empiricism of the theist while minimizing empiricism in general use.  (A. Plantinga addressed this in his recent book.)</p>
<p>Eric has stated correctly the inductive nature of much of science.  It is about the inference to the best explanation.  But is it always so dialectical &#8212; tear down the new paradigm?  Maybe &#8212; but that&#8217;s a matter of historical analysis.  The problem is &#8212; models are largely non-falsifiable.  They are not like The Method where a negative constraint can show one to be false.  Instead they require alteration to the model, and that gets far more complicated.  (I need to read up on modern concepts of falsifiability as Popper&#8217;s material applied, generally speaking, to a different system.)</p>
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		<title>By: Raymond Takashi Swenson</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/#comment-21042</link>
		<dc:creator>Raymond Takashi Swenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12203#comment-21042</guid>
		<description>The traditional allegedly naturalistic argument against the existence of God is &quot;There is no room for God to exist in the reality we know, and we KNOW reality.&quot;  The problem with that assertion is that the claim that materialists &quot;know reality&quot; is constantly being undermined by scientific discoveries, which are constantly demonstrating that the realm of knowledge mankind does NOT possess is always larger than the knowledge we claim to have.  

A good example is modern physics and cosmology.  In just the last couple of decades, scientists have concluded that some 75 to 80 percent of the mass of each galaxy is some mysterious &quot;Dark Matter&quot; which has gravitational mass but does not interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetic radiation in any detectable way.    Dark Matter plus regular matter is only about 20% of the total matter-energy of the universe, because there is a pervasive &quot;Dark Energy&quot; which is accelerating the expansion of the universe and is unlike any of the forms of energy we have studied.  So some 90% of the universe is stuff concerning which the ignorance of science is far more than the knowledge of science.  

Similarly, serious interpretations of quantum physics argue that there are an infinite number of universes, at different stages in their life cycles, and which may have completely different values of the many fundamental constants of nature which, within a narrow range of values, can ensure the possibility of living things.  Among an infinity of universes, where 90% of the stuff in them is utterly indescribable by science, there is plenty of room for phenomena, and even persons, whom scientists are ignorant of but who nevertheless exist in reality.  

Modern science renders the claim of scientists to possess comprehensive knowledge of reality, a corollary of which is the preclusion of the existence of God, an utter nullity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The traditional allegedly naturalistic argument against the existence of God is &#8220;There is no room for God to exist in the reality we know, and we KNOW reality.&#8221;  The problem with that assertion is that the claim that materialists &#8220;know reality&#8221; is constantly being undermined by scientific discoveries, which are constantly demonstrating that the realm of knowledge mankind does NOT possess is always larger than the knowledge we claim to have.  </p>
<p>A good example is modern physics and cosmology.  In just the last couple of decades, scientists have concluded that some 75 to 80 percent of the mass of each galaxy is some mysterious &#8220;Dark Matter&#8221; which has gravitational mass but does not interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetic radiation in any detectable way.    Dark Matter plus regular matter is only about 20% of the total matter-energy of the universe, because there is a pervasive &#8220;Dark Energy&#8221; which is accelerating the expansion of the universe and is unlike any of the forms of energy we have studied.  So some 90% of the universe is stuff concerning which the ignorance of science is far more than the knowledge of science.  </p>
<p>Similarly, serious interpretations of quantum physics argue that there are an infinite number of universes, at different stages in their life cycles, and which may have completely different values of the many fundamental constants of nature which, within a narrow range of values, can ensure the possibility of living things.  Among an infinity of universes, where 90% of the stuff in them is utterly indescribable by science, there is plenty of room for phenomena, and even persons, whom scientists are ignorant of but who nevertheless exist in reality.  </p>
<p>Modern science renders the claim of scientists to possess comprehensive knowledge of reality, a corollary of which is the preclusion of the existence of God, an utter nullity.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Gilson</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/#comment-21041</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Gilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12203#comment-21041</guid>
		<description>Eric, the difficulty with your closing question is that it is not just academic historians who are supplying that answer. The overwhelming impression I got as I was growing up was that religion has hindered science all along the way. This &quot;conflict thesis,&quot; it turns out is being rejected by more and more historians, while a growing number of them are finding that Christianity contributed a lot to the development of science.

One way to look at this is through a comment someone once made to me. This was a believer in Christ, and a well educated one. He said, &quot;You&#039;ve got to admit, the church made some mistakes with science in the Middle Ages, like Galileo.&quot; I said to him, &quot;Galileo is not such a clear-cut case as we&#039;ve been led to believe, but set that aside for now. Besides Galileo, name the other one.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, the difficulty with your closing question is that it is not just academic historians who are supplying that answer. The overwhelming impression I got as I was growing up was that religion has hindered science all along the way. This &#8220;conflict thesis,&#8221; it turns out is being rejected by more and more historians, while a growing number of them are finding that Christianity contributed a lot to the development of science.</p>
<p>One way to look at this is through a comment someone once made to me. This was a believer in Christ, and a well educated one. He said, &#8220;You&#8217;ve got to admit, the church made some mistakes with science in the Middle Ages, like Galileo.&#8221; I said to him, &#8220;Galileo is not such a clear-cut case as we&#8217;ve been led to believe, but set that aside for now. Besides Galileo, name the other one.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/#comment-21040</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12203#comment-21040</guid>
		<description>Science seeks to understand truth. After repeated attempts to falsify that truth fail, truth tends to pile up onto itself into law until someone knocks that truth down and the process of falsifying that new truth begins again. Scientific truth is never meant to be whole, just probable.

Was human capital diverted by the practice of religion attacking people in the pursuit of scientific truth? As a non-academic, it appears that only historians have that answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science seeks to understand truth. After repeated attempts to falsify that truth fail, truth tends to pile up onto itself into law until someone knocks that truth down and the process of falsifying that new truth begins again. Scientific truth is never meant to be whole, just probable.</p>
<p>Was human capital diverted by the practice of religion attacking people in the pursuit of scientific truth? As a non-academic, it appears that only historians have that answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/#comment-21037</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 02:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12203#comment-21037</guid>
		<description>Is it possible Christianity could prove science with the miraculous? Science needs to be quanitifable. Why do scientist seem to reject documented miracles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it possible Christianity could prove science with the miraculous? Science needs to be quanitifable. Why do scientist seem to reject documented miracles?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Smith</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/how-anti-religious-defenders-of-science-hinder-science/#comment-21035</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12203#comment-21035</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s also interesting to note that at the end, he compares Jewish Nobel prize winners (~25%) with Muslim Nobel prize winners (~1%). It seems to me that one conclusion you could draw from this is that different religious communities foster a very different relationship to science. The one conclusion this statistic does NOT lend itself to is the very one that he draws, namely, that belief in God is inherently opposed to scientific progress. And it&#039;s very odd that at the very end of his talk, he almost issues a fatwa against religious believers: &quot;I don&#039;t want to know why 85% of the members of the US Academy of Sciences don&#039;t believe in God; I want to know why 15% of them do.&quot; That challenge - that really, we should get rid of that 15% - is hardly a goal supported by his own evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s also interesting to note that at the end, he compares Jewish Nobel prize winners (~25%) with Muslim Nobel prize winners (~1%). It seems to me that one conclusion you could draw from this is that different religious communities foster a very different relationship to science. The one conclusion this statistic does NOT lend itself to is the very one that he draws, namely, that belief in God is inherently opposed to scientific progress. And it&#8217;s very odd that at the very end of his talk, he almost issues a fatwa against religious believers: &#8220;I don&#8217;t want to know why 85% of the members of the US Academy of Sciences don&#8217;t believe in God; I want to know why 15% of them do.&#8221; That challenge &#8211; that really, we should get rid of that 15% &#8211; is hardly a goal supported by his own evidence.</p>
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