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	<title>Comments on: A Judahite rewrite of Samaritan history?</title>
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		<title>By: David T. Koyzis</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21060</link>
		<dc:creator>David T. Koyzis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21060</guid>
		<description>Mr. Swenson and bcmd:

Thank you for your responses. Very helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Swenson and bcmd:</p>
<p>Thank you for your responses. Very helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Raymond Takashi Swenson</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21059</link>
		<dc:creator>Raymond Takashi Swenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21059</guid>
		<description>It is clearly disingenuous to claim the limited archeology on the Temple Mount can prove the absence of anything. Just doing archeological digs in the adjacent City of David is attacked by Palestinians, even as it brings forward evidence of the reality of Jewish settlement three thousand years ago, something that Palestinians don&#039;t like to think about. 

The original Temple of Solomon was destroyed by the Babylonians, and then rebuilt under Ezra and Nehemiah. The Temple of Herod was a major renovation, on an expanded scale, of Ezra&#039;s temple, on the same location.  The platform of Herod&#039;s temple completely covered the previous smaller site. The interregnum between Solomon&#039;s temple and the reconstruction was only one generation, about forty years, within the lifetime of some who had seen Solomon&#039;s temple. There is no question of the reality of Herod&#039;s temple, which was contiguous with Ezra&#039;s temple, which had its impetus in the restoration of what was then a recently destroyed Temple of Solomon.  The Dead Sea Scrolls date from circa 100 BC and seem to support the reality of Solomon&#039;s Temple. 

The fact is that Biblical history is far better attested than most events in non-Judaic histiry, where the earliest accounts  are often several hundred years after the events they describe. The Dead Sea Scrolls attest the accuracy of the much newer texts that were a thousand years younger.  It is silly to think that Solomon&#039;s temple was figurative when its successors on the site were indisputably real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is clearly disingenuous to claim the limited archeology on the Temple Mount can prove the absence of anything. Just doing archeological digs in the adjacent City of David is attacked by Palestinians, even as it brings forward evidence of the reality of Jewish settlement three thousand years ago, something that Palestinians don&#8217;t like to think about. </p>
<p>The original Temple of Solomon was destroyed by the Babylonians, and then rebuilt under Ezra and Nehemiah. The Temple of Herod was a major renovation, on an expanded scale, of Ezra&#8217;s temple, on the same location.  The platform of Herod&#8217;s temple completely covered the previous smaller site. The interregnum between Solomon&#8217;s temple and the reconstruction was only one generation, about forty years, within the lifetime of some who had seen Solomon&#8217;s temple. There is no question of the reality of Herod&#8217;s temple, which was contiguous with Ezra&#8217;s temple, which had its impetus in the restoration of what was then a recently destroyed Temple of Solomon.  The Dead Sea Scrolls date from circa 100 BC and seem to support the reality of Solomon&#8217;s Temple. </p>
<p>The fact is that Biblical history is far better attested than most events in non-Judaic histiry, where the earliest accounts  are often several hundred years after the events they describe. The Dead Sea Scrolls attest the accuracy of the much newer texts that were a thousand years younger.  It is silly to think that Solomon&#8217;s temple was figurative when its successors on the site were indisputably real.</p>
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		<title>By: bcmd</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21058</link>
		<dc:creator>bcmd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 02:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21058</guid>
		<description>Of course, if you do happen to have a high view of Scripture, this matter is even more easily settled.

In John 4:19-24, Jesus is talking to a Samaritan woman, and the woman says to him:
&lt;blockquote&gt;“Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain [Gerazim], but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Jesus replies:
&lt;blockquote&gt;“Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, Jesus Christ&#039;s word to the Samaritans of his time is that the object of &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; worship is unknown to them, and that Judah&#039;s version of things is the one which points to God and leads to salvation.

The woman said to him:
&lt;blockquote&gt;“I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”  Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

If you don&#039;t believe Jesus knows what he&#039;s talking about, you have bigger problems theologically than whether the Jews smeared the Samaritans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, if you do happen to have a high view of Scripture, this matter is even more easily settled.</p>
<p>In John 4:19-24, Jesus is talking to a Samaritan woman, and the woman says to him:</p>
<blockquote><p>“Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain [Gerazim], but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Jesus replies:</p>
<blockquote><p>“Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. <b><i>You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. </i></b>But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”</p></blockquote>
<p>So, Jesus Christ&#8217;s word to the Samaritans of his time is that the object of <i>their</i> worship is unknown to them, and that Judah&#8217;s version of things is the one which points to God and leads to salvation.</p>
<p>The woman said to him:</p>
<blockquote><p>“I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”  Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.” </p></blockquote>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe Jesus knows what he&#8217;s talking about, you have bigger problems theologically than whether the Jews smeared the Samaritans.</p>
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		<title>By: bcmd</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21057</link>
		<dc:creator>bcmd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 02:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21057</guid>
		<description>In fact, this article contains historical and factual distortions which seem purposely designed to mislead. For example, the portion you quoted:

“Not a single shred of archaeological evidence has ever been found to confirm the existence of Solomon’s Temple.”

This is misleading in the extreme. 

To begin with, many readers will not understand how thoroughly the Romans laid waste to Jerusalem when they sacked it in 70 A.D.  They burned it, urinated in the ashes, stirred the ashes, and then scraped the ashes away to the bedrock. Archaeological remains of Jerusalem are scarce from the time of JESUS, let alone Solomon!

Nevertheless, some readers may be surprised to learn that there &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; in fact direct archaeological evidence for Solomon&#039;s Temple:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071023-jerusalem-artifacts.html

Now, the author can reasonably point out that Solomon&#039;s Temple itself has not been excavated. But how about a little context? You can&#039;t dig on the Temple Mount!

&quot;Because of the religious and political sensitivities involved, no archaeological excavations and only limited surface surveys of the Temple Mount have been conducted.&quot; [Wikipedia]

That&#039;s putting it mildly. Solomon&#039;s Temple is buried under the Dome of the Rock! Do you suppose that the Mullahs are going to allow any excavation that might provide evidence of Israel&#039;s prior claim to the Temple Mount?

Note, however, that you can dig all you want on Mount Gerazim. Despite this fact, how long did it take them to find this palace? They just found it! And yet Schulz can call Solomon&#039;s Temple &quot;total nonsense&quot;! It is laughable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In fact, this article contains historical and factual distortions which seem purposely designed to mislead. For example, the portion you quoted:</p>
<p>“Not a single shred of archaeological evidence has ever been found to confirm the existence of Solomon’s Temple.”</p>
<p>This is misleading in the extreme. </p>
<p>To begin with, many readers will not understand how thoroughly the Romans laid waste to Jerusalem when they sacked it in 70 A.D.  They burned it, urinated in the ashes, stirred the ashes, and then scraped the ashes away to the bedrock. Archaeological remains of Jerusalem are scarce from the time of JESUS, let alone Solomon!</p>
<p>Nevertheless, some readers may be surprised to learn that there <i><b>is</b></i> in fact direct archaeological evidence for Solomon&#8217;s Temple:</p>
<p><a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071023-jerusalem-artifacts.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071023-jerusalem-artifacts.html</a></p>
<p>Now, the author can reasonably point out that Solomon&#8217;s Temple itself has not been excavated. But how about a little context? You can&#8217;t dig on the Temple Mount!</p>
<p>&#8220;Because of the religious and political sensitivities involved, no archaeological excavations and only limited surface surveys of the Temple Mount have been conducted.&#8221; [Wikipedia]</p>
<p>That&#8217;s putting it mildly. Solomon&#8217;s Temple is buried under the Dome of the Rock! Do you suppose that the Mullahs are going to allow any excavation that might provide evidence of Israel&#8217;s prior claim to the Temple Mount?</p>
<p>Note, however, that you can dig all you want on Mount Gerazim. Despite this fact, how long did it take them to find this palace? They just found it! And yet Schulz can call Solomon&#8217;s Temple &#8220;total nonsense&#8221;! It is laughable.</p>
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		<title>By: bcmd</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21056</link>
		<dc:creator>bcmd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 02:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21056</guid>
		<description>You do not have to be a Christian with a high view of biblical authority to spot the problems with the piece you linked to.  A critical reader with a yen for logic and fairness will suffice. I would generously describe this article as tendentious.

1. Schulz&#039;s language is prejudicial toward Judah, referring to their &quot;smears,&quot; &quot;ruses&quot; and &quot;frauds.&quot; A review of the author’s treatment of other religious subjects in &lt;i&gt;Der Spiegel&lt;/i&gt; reveals a similar approach to other traditionally revered religious figures. Luther is a liar, per Schulz. Tischendorf, a thief.

2. The author uncritically presents Samaritan traditions as fact, and Judean traditions as revisionist. &quot;[The Samaritans] were once the guardians of the Ark of the Covenant and the keepers of the Mosaic tradition. But then they became the victims of a smear campaign.&quot; Says who?

3. No opposing views are presented or engaged with, except for that of the ancient historian Josephus, and his viewpoint is presented so weakly that you might miss the fact that he completely contradicts the author&#039;s narrative. Ah, well. Josephus can hardly be trusted anyway, Schulz suggests, as Josephus is &quot;himself a Jew&quot;.

4. If you notice, there are very few actual facts presented in the article. Most of the prose is used to frame the Samaritans sympathetically on an emotional level. The few facts which are presented seem to have obvious alternative interpretations.  

For instance, the presence of a grand palace on Mount Gerazim in 1000 B.C. would not, in itself, exclude the possibility of an even grander temple in Jerusalem. According to I Kings 10:27, when Solomon reigned over a unified Israel, &quot;silver was as common as stone”; that is, the whole kingdom was amazingly prosperous, including &quot;Samaria.&quot; 

Schulz asserts that Jerusalem was very small before the Assyrians destroyed Samaria. However, this is contradicted by the historical records of the Assyrians themselves.  The Assyrian prisms and especially the Lachish Reliefs describe the southern kingdom of Judah as rich and powerful at the time of Samaria&#039;s fall.  Here is Sennacherib boasting of his military exploits in Judah:

“As to Hezekiah, the Jew, he did not submit to my yoke, I laid siege to 46 of his strong cities, walled forts and to the countless small villages in their vicinity, and conquered (them) by means of well-stamped (earth-) ramps, and battering-rams brought (thus) near (to the walls) (combined with) the attack by foot soldiers, (using) mines, breeches as well as sapper work. I drove out (of them) 200,150 people, young and old, male and female, horses, mules, donkeys, camels, big and small cattle beyond counting, and considered (them) booty. Himself I made a prisoner in Jerusalem, his royal residence, like a bird in a cage.”

Doesn&#039;t sound much like a poorly populated village, does it? Samaria fell to the Assyrians in 722 B.C. and King Hezekiah reigned 728–699, so this passage is contemporaneous with the dates in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You do not have to be a Christian with a high view of biblical authority to spot the problems with the piece you linked to.  A critical reader with a yen for logic and fairness will suffice. I would generously describe this article as tendentious.</p>
<p>1. Schulz&#8217;s language is prejudicial toward Judah, referring to their &#8220;smears,&#8221; &#8220;ruses&#8221; and &#8220;frauds.&#8221; A review of the author’s treatment of other religious subjects in <i>Der Spiegel</i> reveals a similar approach to other traditionally revered religious figures. Luther is a liar, per Schulz. Tischendorf, a thief.</p>
<p>2. The author uncritically presents Samaritan traditions as fact, and Judean traditions as revisionist. &#8220;[The Samaritans] were once the guardians of the Ark of the Covenant and the keepers of the Mosaic tradition. But then they became the victims of a smear campaign.&#8221; Says who?</p>
<p>3. No opposing views are presented or engaged with, except for that of the ancient historian Josephus, and his viewpoint is presented so weakly that you might miss the fact that he completely contradicts the author&#8217;s narrative. Ah, well. Josephus can hardly be trusted anyway, Schulz suggests, as Josephus is &#8220;himself a Jew&#8221;.</p>
<p>4. If you notice, there are very few actual facts presented in the article. Most of the prose is used to frame the Samaritans sympathetically on an emotional level. The few facts which are presented seem to have obvious alternative interpretations.  </p>
<p>For instance, the presence of a grand palace on Mount Gerazim in 1000 B.C. would not, in itself, exclude the possibility of an even grander temple in Jerusalem. According to I Kings 10:27, when Solomon reigned over a unified Israel, &#8220;silver was as common as stone”; that is, the whole kingdom was amazingly prosperous, including &#8220;Samaria.&#8221; </p>
<p>Schulz asserts that Jerusalem was very small before the Assyrians destroyed Samaria. However, this is contradicted by the historical records of the Assyrians themselves.  The Assyrian prisms and especially the Lachish Reliefs describe the southern kingdom of Judah as rich and powerful at the time of Samaria&#8217;s fall.  Here is Sennacherib boasting of his military exploits in Judah:</p>
<p>“As to Hezekiah, the Jew, he did not submit to my yoke, I laid siege to 46 of his strong cities, walled forts and to the countless small villages in their vicinity, and conquered (them) by means of well-stamped (earth-) ramps, and battering-rams brought (thus) near (to the walls) (combined with) the attack by foot soldiers, (using) mines, breeches as well as sapper work. I drove out (of them) 200,150 people, young and old, male and female, horses, mules, donkeys, camels, big and small cattle beyond counting, and considered (them) booty. Himself I made a prisoner in Jerusalem, his royal residence, like a bird in a cage.”</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t sound much like a poorly populated village, does it? Samaria fell to the Assyrians in 722 B.C. and King Hezekiah reigned 728–699, so this passage is contemporaneous with the dates in question.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21053</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 06:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21053</guid>
		<description>&quot;In the second place, and although this may come perilously close to ad hominem argumentation, I find something vaguely disquieting about a German publication writing about a supposed Jewish conspiracy.&quot;

&quot;Perilously&quot;? More like &quot;actually&quot;.

If the thesis described in the article is correct, and the dominant Jews had begun to erase the legacies of their Samaritan competitors, are there any methods of analysis that could weight the likelihood of one denomination&#039;s text or another being accurate?

(A third possibility is that neither the Jewish nor the Samaritan versions are authoritative, and that a third shoot from an Abrahamic root may have existed and retained accurate texts.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In the second place, and although this may come perilously close to ad hominem argumentation, I find something vaguely disquieting about a German publication writing about a supposed Jewish conspiracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Perilously&#8221;? More like &#8220;actually&#8221;.</p>
<p>If the thesis described in the article is correct, and the dominant Jews had begun to erase the legacies of their Samaritan competitors, are there any methods of analysis that could weight the likelihood of one denomination&#8217;s text or another being accurate?</p>
<p>(A third possibility is that neither the Jewish nor the Samaritan versions are authoritative, and that a third shoot from an Abrahamic root may have existed and retained accurate texts.)</p>
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		<title>By: David T. Koyzis</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21049</link>
		<dc:creator>David T. Koyzis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21049</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this, Jeremy. I agree with you on these points. This account is rather reminiscent of the claim that Jesus&#039; followers fabricated the resurrection for their own purposes. I am less certain what to do with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.upsite.co.il/uploaded/files/658_ef82e03f461ae30b7f76073dc824342e.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this textual evidence&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The study of the transmission of the Pentateuch indicates that Samaritans and other early Jews shared an early stage of traditions and Scripture. We should keep in focus the possibility that a manuscript with a reading found in the Samaritan Pentateuch may not be the result of editing by Samaritans; it may represent the original reading. Thus, the MT and other related text types may represent redaction by others, notably Jews in Judea, especially after the burning of the Samaritan “altar” by John Hyrcanus in the late second century BCE.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It&#039;s an interesting hypothesis, although it obviously falls far short of proof. In the first place, it seems to accord rather too easily with the contemporary postmodern assumption that texts are shaped to support the powerful against the powerless. In the second place, and although this may come perilously close to &lt;i&gt;ad hominem&lt;/i&gt; argumentation, I find something vaguely disquieting about a German publication writing about a supposed Jewish conspiracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, Jeremy. I agree with you on these points. This account is rather reminiscent of the claim that Jesus&#8217; followers fabricated the resurrection for their own purposes. I am less certain what to do with <a href="http://www.upsite.co.il/uploaded/files/658_ef82e03f461ae30b7f76073dc824342e.pdf" rel="nofollow">this textual evidence</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The study of the transmission of the Pentateuch indicates that Samaritans and other early Jews shared an early stage of traditions and Scripture. We should keep in focus the possibility that a manuscript with a reading found in the Samaritan Pentateuch may not be the result of editing by Samaritans; it may represent the original reading. Thus, the MT and other related text types may represent redaction by others, notably Jews in Judea, especially after the burning of the Samaritan “altar” by John Hyrcanus in the late second century BCE.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting hypothesis, although it obviously falls far short of proof. In the first place, it seems to accord rather too easily with the contemporary postmodern assumption that texts are shaped to support the powerful against the powerless. In the second place, and although this may come perilously close to <i>ad hominem</i> argumentation, I find something vaguely disquieting about a German publication writing about a supposed Jewish conspiracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Pierce</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2012/04/a-judahite-rewrite-of-samaritan-history/#comment-21048</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Apr 2012 11:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=12216#comment-21048</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if the claim is true, but suppose it is. Do we really need archaeological evidence to think the claim to a structure&#039;s existence is likely or true? There are plenty of arguments just based on the text, with features that we wouldn&#039;t expect to be present if there had never been a temple. For one thing, we have no good explanation for the despair and distress over the destruction of the temple if it had all been a big conspiracy. Psalm 137, Lamentations, much in the prophets, the entire point of the book of Kings, and so on is not just to demonstrate the existence of a temple but to explain why God would orchestrate events to lead to its destruction and for the believing community to deal with the awful sense of God&#039;s abandoning them. It&#039;s a bit much to think someone who merely wanted to pretend there had been a temple would construct all that.

Also, aren&#039;t there Babylonian records of Nebuchadnezzar boasting of destroying the temple? That&#039;s archaeology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if the claim is true, but suppose it is. Do we really need archaeological evidence to think the claim to a structure&#8217;s existence is likely or true? There are plenty of arguments just based on the text, with features that we wouldn&#8217;t expect to be present if there had never been a temple. For one thing, we have no good explanation for the despair and distress over the destruction of the temple if it had all been a big conspiracy. Psalm 137, Lamentations, much in the prophets, the entire point of the book of Kings, and so on is not just to demonstrate the existence of a temple but to explain why God would orchestrate events to lead to its destruction and for the believing community to deal with the awful sense of God&#8217;s abandoning them. It&#8217;s a bit much to think someone who merely wanted to pretend there had been a temple would construct all that.</p>
<p>Also, aren&#8217;t there Babylonian records of Nebuchadnezzar boasting of destroying the temple? That&#8217;s archaeology.</p>
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