Some of you might have noticed this, but I thought it appropriate to point out on Evangel that First Things has produced its first video, The Creed: What Christians Profess, and Why It Ought to Matter. It is a documentary about the Nicene Creed. I stumbled on this because I was looking for something like it for my 11th Grade theology class. Here is the advertisement by First Things:
Friday, January 27, 2012, 10:33 AM
January 27th, 2012 | 12:15 pm | #1
Thank you. I ordered it right after I saw your post. Looks like a great group of thinkers. You can’t go wrong with Frederica Mathewes-Green.
January 27th, 2012 | 12:29 pm | #2
I received my copy last month and I quite enjoyed it. I definitely recommend it.
January 27th, 2012 | 12:42 pm | #3
Can someone genuinely affirm the Nicene Creed and still be a Hell-bound heretic?
January 27th, 2012 | 2:13 pm | #4
“Can someone genuinely affirm the Nicene Creed and still be a Hell-bound heretic?”
(A) The Nicene Creed is more or less the litmus test for heresy, as it defines orthodox Christianity. What are you thinking of?
(B) I don’t think any of us have the power, knowledge, or right to make salvific judgments.
January 27th, 2012 | 2:34 pm | #5
I’m wondering whether someone can genuinely affirm the Nicene Creed and still be Hell-bound.
January 27th, 2012 | 4:07 pm | #6
“I’m wondering whether someone can genuinely affirm the Nicene Creed and still be Hell-bound.”
For one thing, none can say with any certainty whether someone is “hell-bound” or even “heaven-bound”. I think that what you mean to be asking is whether someone can affirm the Nicene creed while not being a Christian.
Secondly, The Nicene creed is not a marker for salvation, Jesus is. John 14:6 is pretty clear on that.
Is it possible for someone to affirm the Nicene Creed and choose not to follow Jesus? Yes, theoretically. Though I don’t really see the point in affirming God’s grace and choosing to deny it, yet we all sin. So really in a sense we all claim to follow the Nicene Creed and to be followers of Christ yet our actions say otherwise (in sin).
Also, on a side note, I’m curious why you’re asking or why you’re even concerned. I thought you were a calvinist? From your perspective, people are hell-bound or heaven-bound regardless of what they think about the creed so the question is really one that only God can know (since it’s unconditional there really is no reason why or why not).
January 27th, 2012 | 4:36 pm | #7
Livingston Dell: “Also, on a side note, I’m curious why you’re asking or why you’re even concerned.”
I have read comments from folks (usually Catholics or Eastern Orthodox) who write something like the following:
“Early Church Father St. John Chrysostom is correct when he says that the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
It’s somewhat safe to assume that these (post-Nicene Creed) bishops whose skulls are paving the road to hell genuinely affirmed the Nicene Creed.
And yet their affirmation of the Nicene Creed did not (presumably) prevent them from being in Hell.
January 27th, 2012 | 5:24 pm | #8
“And yet their affirmation of the Nicene Creed did not (presumably) prevent them from being in Hell.”
I think that the point of the saying “the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops” is more to point out that the church is plagued with hypocrisy, and probably has less to do with the Nicene creed.
But you’re conclusion is still likely correct. The Nicene Creed is not a one-way ticket to the Kingdom of God. Jesus is the only path.
January 27th, 2012 | 5:54 pm | #9
I think the Nicene Creed succeeds in helping us understand what Christianity is AND isn’t with regard to core doctrines.
Can someone affirm it and go to Hell? For the life of me I can’t think of why knowledge of doctrines would equal eternal security. I’m not a relativist, but I find it difficult to make positive conclusions about persons and their state. I prefer to say someone’s beliefs are/are not Christian, but in general I shy away from saying I know the state of someone’s soul. This is not because I’m afraid to make judgments, but because I know there is so much I don’t know. Also, I struggle with the “Christian” who is an a-hole and the “non-believer” who is clearly a good person.
The older I get, the less I seem to know.
January 27th, 2012 | 6:03 pm | #10
[...] The Nicene Creed, A DVD Documentary – This looks interesting – a movie about the creation of the Nicene Creed. [...]
January 27th, 2012 | 7:25 pm | #11
Livingston Dell: “The Nicene Creed is not a one-way ticket to the Kingdom of God.”
Thanks Livingston. Genuine affirmation of the Nicene Creed and the content therein is not sufficient for a “one-way ticket to the Kingdom of God.” I.e, a person could genuinely affirm the Nicene Creed and yet still be Hell-bound.
Or in the past tense: There are folks who have genuinely affirmed the Nicene Creed and yet still went to Hell.
Eg., Early Church Father St. John Chrysostom: “The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”
January 30th, 2012 | 7:59 am | #12
TUAD is right, which raises a related question: “Can one deny the creed and still be a Christian?” The answer seems to be “yes.” One can have faith in Christ as Savior and Lord while declaiming against the Nicene and post-Nicene philosophical rubric, including things like essences, substances, hypostatic union, the Divine energies, etc. Who has done so and still seems a Christian? John Milton, for one.
January 30th, 2012 | 9:16 pm | #13
Can someone tell me about the dvd itself? How long is it? How appealing might it be to high school age skeptics? How interesting did you find it? Thanks
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