Comments on: Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/ A First Things Blog Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:35:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: jason taylor http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20390 jason taylor Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:09:38 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20390 C.S Lewis once addressed that Anthony and it is a difficult subject. He concluded that we are responsible for what we know. As no government really says,"we are going to plunder and enslave the thus and so's" and we cannot afford to allow the military to put itself in the position of civil authorities, we must to some degree accept this. What a Christian soldier cannot do is commit an act he knows is sinful when he is commanded to do so. C.S Lewis once addressed that Anthony and it is a difficult subject. He concluded that we are responsible for what we know. As no government really says,”we are going to plunder and enslave the thus and so’s” and we cannot afford to allow the military to put itself in the position of civil authorities, we must to some degree accept this. What a Christian soldier cannot do is commit an act he knows is sinful when he is commanded to do so.

]]> By: Anthony Mator http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20383 Anthony Mator Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:57:42 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20383 The Marines were probably not happy with that answer. I remember in boot camp being taught that, as Marines, it was not our responsibility to decide whether or not a particular military action was just or unjust. Our duty was simply to obey orders no matter what. While I understood that we were at the bottom of the chain of command, I was deeply offended by this teaching. It implied that there is no higher law than the U.S. government, and that our loyalty should not be impeded by personal integrity. If he had explained it differently, such as, "Congress makes the decisions, and our job is to comply with those decisions, and when we don't we must face the consequences..." I would have been ok with it. The Marines were probably not happy with that answer. I remember in boot camp being taught that, as Marines, it was not our responsibility to decide whether or not a particular military action was just or unjust. Our duty was simply to obey orders no matter what.

While I understood that we were at the bottom of the chain of command, I was deeply offended by this teaching. It implied that there is no higher law than the U.S. government, and that our loyalty should not be impeded by personal integrity. If he had explained it differently, such as, “Congress makes the decisions, and our job is to comply with those decisions, and when we don’t we must face the consequences…” I would have been ok with it.

]]> By: First Links – 11.21.11 » First Thoughts | A First Things Blog http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20372 First Links – 11.21.11 » First Thoughts | A First Things Blog Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:29:15 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20372 [...] First Links – 11.21.11 Monday, November 21, 2011, 10:29 AM Joe Carter Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy Evangel, Gene [...] [...] First Links – 11.21.11 Monday, November 21, 2011, 10:29 AM Joe Carter Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy Evangel, Gene [...]

]]> By: jason taylor http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20366 jason taylor Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:55:01 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20366 Conspiracy goes way back in human history, all the way back to Eden, when Adam and Eve exchanged their righteousness for corrupted loyalty toward one another Or not. While my inner naughty schoolboy has a sort of liking for that idea, I'm afraid it won't fly- "And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. " Not exactly "I am Spartacus" material, is it? Conspiracy goes way back in human history, all the way back to Eden, when Adam and Eve exchanged their righteousness for corrupted loyalty toward one another

Or not. While my inner naughty schoolboy has a sort of liking for that idea, I’m afraid it won’t fly-

“And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. ”

Not exactly “I am Spartacus” material, is it?

]]> By: Raymond Takashi Swenson http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20361 Raymond Takashi Swenson Sun, 20 Nov 2011 00:09:50 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20361 Christ taught that we cannot have divided loyalties, we cannot serve God and mammon, we must be either cold or hot, not noncommital, we cannot halt between two choices, but must declare for the Lord. The idea that some Christians have is that once they have declared themselves a fan of the team of Jesus, they get lifetime season tickets for all the big games, and every Sunday will be Superbowl Sunday. But Jesus did not call for fans; he called for team members who would love God with all their heart, might, mind and strength. Christ wants a true commitment from us. He wants not cheers but our broken hearts offered on the altar. The lack of commitment and loyalty that some churches experience is due first of all to the fact that they do not teach their congregations that God demands their loyalty, but instead teach that their reward is guaranteed regardless of future performance. Christ taught that we cannot have divided loyalties, we cannot serve God and mammon, we must be either cold or hot, not noncommital, we cannot halt between two choices, but must declare for the Lord.

The idea that some Christians have is that once they have declared themselves a fan of the team of Jesus, they get lifetime season tickets for all the big games, and every Sunday will be Superbowl Sunday. But Jesus did not call for fans; he called for team members who would love God with all their heart, might, mind and strength. Christ wants a true commitment from us. He wants not cheers but our broken hearts offered on the altar.

The lack of commitment and loyalty that some churches experience is due first of all to the fact that they do not teach their congregations that God demands their loyalty, but instead teach that their reward is guaranteed regardless of future performance.

]]> By: Loyalty and Its Perversion | Mitchell Lewis http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20359 Loyalty and Its Perversion | Mitchell Lewis Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:08:28 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20359 [...] is one of the seven Army values. At First Things, Gene Fant writes about Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy. Share this:PrintEmailLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. This entry was posted in [...] [...] is one of the seven Army values. At First Things, Gene Fant writes about Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy. Share this:PrintEmailLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. This entry was posted in [...]

]]> By: Mitchell Lewis http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/11/loyalty%e2%80%99s-perverted-cousin-conspiracy/#comment-20358 Mitchell Lewis Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:05:55 +0000 http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11893#comment-20358 [...] is one of the seven Army values. At First Things, Gene Fant writes about Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy. Share this:PrintEmailLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. This entry was posted in [...] [...] is one of the seven Army values. At First Things, Gene Fant writes about Loyalty’s Perverted Cousin, Conspiracy. Share this:PrintEmailLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. This entry was posted in [...]

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