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	<title>Comments on: Restoring the Relevance of the Liberal Arts</title>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18937</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18937</guid>
		<description>For those interested, here&#039;s a US NEWS &amp; WORLD REPORT, ranking of Liberal Arts Colleges: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested, here&#8217;s a US NEWS &amp; WORLD REPORT, ranking of Liberal Arts Colleges: <a href="http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges" rel="nofollow">http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18936</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18936</guid>
		<description>Kim Brooks, clearly gave a good portion of her life, to the study of the Liberal Arts, and, based on her description of her less than economically advantageous circumstances, that followed her Masters&#039; Degree, one might reasonably come to the conclusion that, the only pragmatic benefit to be derived from obtaining a Liberal Arts degree, would be a job that, anyone who didn&#039;t have a degree would easily get (perhaps just some vocational training, such as a Paralegal).


The simple fact is, no one, unless they belong to that rather peculiar, rare group of people, who like to learn for learning&#039;s sake, will spend considerable amounts of money, only to get a job, that will barely pay the rent, let alone pay off their student loans. 

Of course, I&#039;m kidding about people being &quot;peculiar&#039;&#039; for wanting to learn for learning&#039;s sake, after all, I consider myself part of this group, but I do think that, for purely pragmatic, need to pay the rent, utilities, car payment, and all the other, um, incidentals of life, this group, if it&#039;s not rare already, will soon be. 


What to do? Certainly, Craig Payne&#039;s point about professors getting students excited, is a good one, but it presupposes that they&#039;re in the classroom, already. If they don&#039;t see the point of even enrolling in a Liberal Arts class, getting them excited, over it, is a moot point.


One possible alternative, is to require ALL students, to learn Greek, and Latin, art history, the history of the world from prehistoric times, to the present, to take philosophy from the presocratics, to our contemporary times, to understand religion, to understand Drama, from the ancient Greeks, such as Aeschylus, the Romans, such as Plautus and Terence, to read and understand Shakespeare, Henri Ibsen, Anton Chekhov, George Bernard Shaw, the rich literature from Gilgamesh, Dante, to the present, regardless of their majors. 


Of course, this quixotic suggestion will never materialize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim Brooks, clearly gave a good portion of her life, to the study of the Liberal Arts, and, based on her description of her less than economically advantageous circumstances, that followed her Masters&#8217; Degree, one might reasonably come to the conclusion that, the only pragmatic benefit to be derived from obtaining a Liberal Arts degree, would be a job that, anyone who didn&#8217;t have a degree would easily get (perhaps just some vocational training, such as a Paralegal).</p>
<p>The simple fact is, no one, unless they belong to that rather peculiar, rare group of people, who like to learn for learning&#8217;s sake, will spend considerable amounts of money, only to get a job, that will barely pay the rent, let alone pay off their student loans. </p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m kidding about people being &#8220;peculiar&#8221; for wanting to learn for learning&#8217;s sake, after all, I consider myself part of this group, but I do think that, for purely pragmatic, need to pay the rent, utilities, car payment, and all the other, um, incidentals of life, this group, if it&#8217;s not rare already, will soon be. </p>
<p>What to do? Certainly, Craig Payne&#8217;s point about professors getting students excited, is a good one, but it presupposes that they&#8217;re in the classroom, already. If they don&#8217;t see the point of even enrolling in a Liberal Arts class, getting them excited, over it, is a moot point.</p>
<p>One possible alternative, is to require ALL students, to learn Greek, and Latin, art history, the history of the world from prehistoric times, to the present, to take philosophy from the presocratics, to our contemporary times, to understand religion, to understand Drama, from the ancient Greeks, such as Aeschylus, the Romans, such as Plautus and Terence, to read and understand Shakespeare, Henri Ibsen, Anton Chekhov, George Bernard Shaw, the rich literature from Gilgamesh, Dante, to the present, regardless of their majors. </p>
<p>Of course, this quixotic suggestion will never materialize.</p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18934</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 02:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18934</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m not Catholic, I have great respect for the Catholic Church, and one can purchase some wonderfully educational, and, dare I say, entertaining, DVD&#039;s and CD&#039;s, from the INTERNATIONAL CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY, originated by the late thomistic Scholar, Ralph McInerny. He has a great course on Aquinas, as well as many other courses, by other professors, he has assembled for this university. Although one can matriculate for a degree, one doesn&#039;t have to do so. One can purchase these course, for the pure joy of learning. Here&#039;s a link, to the site: http://home.comcast.net/~icuweb/icu.htm

Also, if one wishes to purchase, and read on one&#039;s own, Aquinas&#039;s great SUMMA THEOLOGIAE,one can buy it from IGNATIUS PRESS: http://www.ignatius.com/

Also, if one wants all of Aristotle&#039;s extant works, translated by the Aristotilean scholar Jonathon Barnes, among other great works, consider EIGHTH DAY BOOKShttp://eighthdaybooks.com/


And, while I&#039;m at it, THE GREAT COURSES, provides excellent courses, on a plethora of subjects: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/greatcourses.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m not Catholic, I have great respect for the Catholic Church, and one can purchase some wonderfully educational, and, dare I say, entertaining, DVD&#8217;s and CD&#8217;s, from the INTERNATIONAL CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY, originated by the late thomistic Scholar, Ralph McInerny. He has a great course on Aquinas, as well as many other courses, by other professors, he has assembled for this university. Although one can matriculate for a degree, one doesn&#8217;t have to do so. One can purchase these course, for the pure joy of learning. Here&#8217;s a link, to the site: <a href="http://home.comcast.net/~icuweb/icu.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.comcast.net/~icuweb/icu.htm</a></p>
<p>Also, if one wishes to purchase, and read on one&#8217;s own, Aquinas&#8217;s great SUMMA THEOLOGIAE,one can buy it from IGNATIUS PRESS: <a href="http://www.ignatius.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ignatius.com/</a></p>
<p>Also, if one wants all of Aristotle&#8217;s extant works, translated by the Aristotilean scholar Jonathon Barnes, among other great works, consider EIGHTH DAY BOOKShttp://eighthdaybooks.com/</p>
<p>And, while I&#8217;m at it, THE GREAT COURSES, provides excellent courses, on a plethora of subjects: <a href="http://www.thegreatcourses.com/greatcourses.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.thegreatcourses.com/greatcourses.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18933</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 01:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18933</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m not a professor, and I&#039;m not a teacher, I totally agree with Craig&#039;s comments. 

the Liberal Arts are immensely precious, and anyone not just introduced to them, but also comprehensively immersed in them, possesses a state not unlike poverty, in the economic realm.


To not have any understanding of our great monotheistic traditions, how they influenced the emergence of empirical science, to have never read any of Plato, Aristotle, the golden age of greece, one could go on, and on, is overwelmingly sad.

I live in Utah. We have some great universities, here, University of Utah, and Brigham Young University, Utah State University. I think that they do take the Liberal Arts seriously. 

Thomas Aquinas College, in California, is unique, as far as I know, in not having textbooks, but requiring students to read the great works, of the thinkers of our great past, and present. I must confess to envying anyone fortunate enough to have graduated from this amazing, wonderful school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m not a professor, and I&#8217;m not a teacher, I totally agree with Craig&#8217;s comments. </p>
<p>the Liberal Arts are immensely precious, and anyone not just introduced to them, but also comprehensively immersed in them, possesses a state not unlike poverty, in the economic realm.</p>
<p>To not have any understanding of our great monotheistic traditions, how they influenced the emergence of empirical science, to have never read any of Plato, Aristotle, the golden age of greece, one could go on, and on, is overwelmingly sad.</p>
<p>I live in Utah. We have some great universities, here, University of Utah, and Brigham Young University, Utah State University. I think that they do take the Liberal Arts seriously. </p>
<p>Thomas Aquinas College, in California, is unique, as far as I know, in not having textbooks, but requiring students to read the great works, of the thinkers of our great past, and present. I must confess to envying anyone fortunate enough to have graduated from this amazing, wonderful school.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Payne</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18931</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Payne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18931</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t need to &quot;kill the liberal arts degree.&quot;  It already basically committed suicide, back when colleges agreed to become vocational training centers in order to reap the extra tuition and governmental money.

Nothing at all wrong with vocational training centers; they perform a necessary function.  But when people can get actual college diplomas in vocational subjects, the college diploma tends to mean less and less even as (paradoxically) it becomes more and more the entry ticket into a well-paid job.  So then we end up with absurdities like a class of auto mechanics taking a required poetry class in order to help qualify for a &quot;college diploma&quot; in auto mechanics instead of a &quot;training certificate.&quot;

All sorts of other problems come along with this; for instance, colleges begin adopting the &quot;customer service&quot; model of education.  Colleges now have to please the expectations of entering students--and the students expect high grades, minimal work, and ultra-cooperative professors, or else they pack up their federal money and move to a more accommodating college.

Sorry to sound so bleak, but this is the way it is right now.  Getting students excited over the traditional liberal arts now depends more than ever on individual professors and their ability to connect with students.  Otherwise, students now see liberal arts subjects as the hurdles they are forced to jump in order to get to their &quot;more important&quot; vocational training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need to &#8220;kill the liberal arts degree.&#8221;  It already basically committed suicide, back when colleges agreed to become vocational training centers in order to reap the extra tuition and governmental money.</p>
<p>Nothing at all wrong with vocational training centers; they perform a necessary function.  But when people can get actual college diplomas in vocational subjects, the college diploma tends to mean less and less even as (paradoxically) it becomes more and more the entry ticket into a well-paid job.  So then we end up with absurdities like a class of auto mechanics taking a required poetry class in order to help qualify for a &#8220;college diploma&#8221; in auto mechanics instead of a &#8220;training certificate.&#8221;</p>
<p>All sorts of other problems come along with this; for instance, colleges begin adopting the &#8220;customer service&#8221; model of education.  Colleges now have to please the expectations of entering students&#8211;and the students expect high grades, minimal work, and ultra-cooperative professors, or else they pack up their federal money and move to a more accommodating college.</p>
<p>Sorry to sound so bleak, but this is the way it is right now.  Getting students excited over the traditional liberal arts now depends more than ever on individual professors and their ability to connect with students.  Otherwise, students now see liberal arts subjects as the hurdles they are forced to jump in order to get to their &#8220;more important&#8221; vocational training.</p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18930</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 11:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18930</guid>
		<description>Jan: yes. Thomas Aquinas College, in California, is a really good one. St. John&#039;s College, two areas, New Mexico, and Maryland. Brigham Young University, here where I&#039;m at, in Utah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jan: yes. Thomas Aquinas College, in California, is a really good one. St. John&#8217;s College, two areas, New Mexico, and Maryland. Brigham Young University, here where I&#8217;m at, in Utah.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18927</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18927</guid>
		<description>Are there any schools left which teach the liberal arts in the old way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there any schools left which teach the liberal arts in the old way?</p>
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		<title>By: The World Wide (Religious) Web for Monday, July 11, 2011 &#171; GeorgePWood.com</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18919</link>
		<dc:creator>The World Wide (Religious) Web for Monday, July 11, 2011 &#171; GeorgePWood.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18919</guid>
		<description>[...] “Restoring the Relevance of the Liberal Arts”: The liberal arts lost their resonance with reality when they detached themselves from the authority of tradition and the reality of God.  Once “liberal” meant to be liberated from the burdensome slavery of selfishness; now “liberal” means that we are freed from the hegemony of institutions and all authorities and are free to serve or even worship ourselves. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Restoring the Relevance of the Liberal Arts”: The liberal arts lost their resonance with reality when they detached themselves from the authority of tradition and the reality of God.  Once “liberal” meant to be liberated from the burdensome slavery of selfishness; now “liberal” means that we are freed from the hegemony of institutions and all authorities and are free to serve or even worship ourselves. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/07/restoring-the-relevance-of-the-liberal-arts/#comment-18889</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2011 20:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=11352#comment-18889</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;It’s hard to sit at the feet of professors and peers who never look one in the eye because they are too busy examining themselves for signs of divinity.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Some of these self-worshipping professors have  their own devout groupies and they will and do look you in the eye. 

P.S.  Good article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;It’s hard to sit at the feet of professors and peers who never look one in the eye because they are too busy examining themselves for signs of divinity.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Some of these self-worshipping professors have  their own devout groupies and they will and do look you in the eye. </p>
<p>P.S.  Good article.</p>
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