You and I have been over this before Bret. You can go to the websites that we have talked about above to find answers if you are truly seeking. But you are really not seeking. You have made up your mind that God has not accurately recorded His thoughts and actions in Scripture, since you reject (at least many portions of) the Scriptures. This is where it ends for me, we have gone down this road many times, and I have laid out my case, and you have laid out yours. Since both entrenched, unless you have specific questions about the Scripture that supports a young earth, I will say ‘adieu’, and conclude that there is no further use for discussion with you on this matter.

Steve: Thanks for your response. Jerry Coyne (suprise, I got it right :)) believes that, belief in Christianity is incompatable, with belief in evolutionary theory. However, as we see, many, many, great thinkers, do believe both. Therefore, Coyne must conclude that, these thinkers are either dishonest, or delusional.

Steve, you agree with his assessment, but, obviously reach a completely different view that, evolution, is to be rejected.

But why, really? Evolution, in a nutshell, is the notion that, species change, as a result of random mutations, in their genetic material, and natural selection: those beings with genetic material, and other features that, are conducive to their survival, will live long enough, to reproduce, thereby spreading their “fit” genes, to their offspring. The random mutations, “create”, over millions of years, the diversity, of life we see.

this seems to contradict the Bible’s teaching that, God created all life. There’s certainly nothing random about God’s creating. So, one can either accept the Bible’s teaching that, God, created us, or evolution, where random gene changes, that, just happen to be conducive to the survival of the individuals, that possess them, cause all of life, in its complexity, and deversity, and the poor creatures, whose genetic mutations happened to not be compatable to their survival, died out. The choice seems clear.

Or does it? Does the Bible state, precisely, how God created all life? No, we’re left to our own devices, to speculate how that happened. What if God, decided to create, through the natural selection process? He decided to allow creation to unfold, this way. Why not?

Since we don’t really know, how God created life, from the Bible, it seems reasonable if, the evidence shows that evolution occurred, this is how it was created.

Another important distinction: appearance vs. reality. The natural selection process, appears random, to us. But that may be due to our limited perspective. From God’s perspective, it’s not random at all.

Also, there’s the issue of how life arose, in the first place. The probability, of life arising, in the inhospitable environment, of the primitive earth, by chance, seems very low.

Interestingly, in the Bible, the animals came first, then humans. This has been confirmed, through evolution. God created life, through the natural selection process. Who are we, to say He couldn’t?

Bret, the two views are diametrically opposed and Coyne and others see the dishonest and delusional nature of trying to fuse them. They can read the Judeo-Christian Scriptures for themselves, and understand the nature of the text (even though they don’t believe it). They see the duplicity better than the BioLogos folks do and rightly scoff at attempts to harmonize them. The lesson from Coyne is the right lesson to learn, either accept evolution with it’s God-denying hypothesis, everything by blind, unguided chance, or accept the Creator God of Holy Scripture and understand we are accountable to Him and Him alone.

Bret Lythgoe:
He’s an expert on evolution, but it’s fallacious, to appeal to his authority, on this, to argue for evolution’s supposed incompatibility with Chrisitianity.

It’s ‘because’ he’s an expert on evolution that he understands the two views cannot be harmonized. It’s ‘because’ he can understand the claims of Judeo-Christianity and can ‘read’ our Scriptures for himself that he says any attempt to do so is delusional. He rejects the God of Judeo-Christianity and no attempt to tell him that God used evolution as His means of creation will convince him otherwise. He rightly understands that any attempt to do so is dishonest, compromising, and duplicitous. It’s the folks at BioLogos to their shame who can’t see this as clearly as Coyne does.

Bret Lythgoe:
I’m not arguing that, because a bunch of authorities are in favor of evolution and Christianity’s compatibilty, therefore they’re compatible. That would make me guilty of the fallacy of appaeling to authority. But the fact that, so many highly accomplished people do believe in Christianity and evolution’s compatibility, seems to make it less plausible that they’re ALL either “delusional or dishonest”.

We are all susceptible to self-delusion, Bret, to compromise, and incorrect interpretations of the physical world. That’s why we need the light of Scripture and God’s revelation to tell us what He did, when He did it, and what is ‘actual’ truth.

So the real question is not making extrapolations, about the past, based on sound empirical data, but CORRECT extrapolations, as i’m sure you would agree.

That is, not only do the above people (comments 70) accept the compatibility of evolution and Christianity, but the NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, does as well.

I’ve read enough of Coyle (his book reviews, in THE NEW REPUBLIC, for example) to know his seeming lack of respect for religion. His assertion that, one is either “dishonest or delusional”, if one sees a way of harmonizing evolution, and Chrisitianity, is such a ridiculous statement that, I’m suprised anyone would give it a second look, except out of derision. Based on what I’ve read of Coyle, he deserves little respect, for the comments, and analysis, he’s made, concerning evolution, and its compatibility, (or lack thereof) with Chrisitianity, or other forms of Theism. He’s an expert on evolution, but it’s fallacious, to appeal to his authority, on this, to argue for evolution’s supposed incompatibility with Chrisitianity.

It’s NOT a fallacious argument that, Christianity and evolution can be reconciled. Where’s the flaw? ONLY if one reads the bible in a purely literal way, is there a flaw.

Perhaps Coyle should tell Francis Collins, a man who knows a thing or two, about evolution, about his formulation that, one who attempts to reconcile Chrisitianity and evolution is either “delusional or dishonest”? My guess is, Dr. Collins would get a good laugh at it, and then instruct Coyle of his fallacious reasoning, and/or lack of understanding.

Coyle could also tell this to John Polkinghorne, a physicist, and anglican priest, as well as Richard Swinburne, professor of philosophy of religion, at Oxford, Keith Ward, professor of religion at Oxford, as well as Kenneth R. Miller, a professor of biology at Brown University, about how they’re al either “delusional or dishonest” for believing in Christianity’s compatibility with evolution. My guess is, they would perhap, give Coyle a lesson in basic Chrisitianity, logic, etc.

Oh, let’s not forget the statement of the late Harvard Biologist, Stephen J. Gould, who argued that, evolution does not necessitate one being either an atheist, or a religious believer, and he pointed out a well respected biologist, I forget his name right now, but I can find it for you, who is also a devout member of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Just because Coyle is a leading expert on evolution, in no way indicates that his assessment of religion is correct; it’s not. Richard Dawkins, is a leading expert, on evolutionary biology, but we both agree that, his assessment of Christianity is terribly flawed.

Pope John Paul, the second, a man who was VASTLY learned, believed that evolution and Chrisitianity were compatible.

I’m not arguing that, because a bunch of authorities are in favor of evolution and Christianity’s compatibilty, therefore they’re compatible. That would make me guilty of the fallacy of appaeling to authority. But the fact that, so many highly accomplished people do believe in Christianity and evolution’s compatibility, seems to make it less plausible that they’re ALL either “delusional or dishonest”.

Fallacious reasoning brother. Ahtheist Jerry Coyne in some recent comments last year had this to say:
“Attempts to reconcile God and evolution keep rolling off the intellectual assembly line,” he laments. “It never stops, because the reconciliation never works.”

Al Mohler has commented thusly concerning Coyne’s comments:
Coyne is one of the most recognized authorities on evolution in the world today. He sees those who argue for an accommodation of evolutionary science and religious belief as either dishonest or delusional. He is increasingly frustrated with scientists who make what he sees as a fallacious argument — that Christianity and evolution can be reconciled.