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	<title>Comments on: On the Demise of Steeples</title>
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	<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: CJ</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17323</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 05:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17323</guid>
		<description>MRS, 

I was checking back to see if anyone responded to your Chandler/Platt question and it appears no one has.  As I alluded to earlier, churches who don&#039;t &quot;seem to mind doing away with that sort of thing&quot; (ie. steeples and the like) are still spending money -- and lots of it-- on things other than missions.  I am not as familiar with the facilities at Chandler&#039;s church, but those at The Church at Brook Hills are first-rate.  They may have been built before Platt arrived, but they are being maintained and improved during his tenure.  No doubt with a wise balance and a clear priority on the Gospel.  But, make no mistake, non-missional spending is taking place and it is spending that I&#039;m sure is being done with the belief that it will help them accomplish their goals.  Again, I believe if such expenses are motivated with a desire to care for what God has given you and to update technology as is necessary to fulfill your mission, I would not criticize that.  How many among us would fail to replace the roof on our own homes or repair/replace our furniture when it is showing holes?  Perhaps even more appropriate to the comments at hand, how many of of us are still carrying around a cell phone in a shoulder bag or using a flip phone with no texting or media capability?  Indeed, life without Twitter would be an unthinkable disconnect to some.  (I personally don&#039;t use Twitter, but I know plenty who do and they use it effectively.)  I suspect, if confronted with this question, both Chandler and Platt would encourage churches to care for what they have, enter into new projects prayerfully and prudently, and spend the absolute most that you can on missions.  I think they would also add that when you spend money on things which can be seen or heard, purchase quality.  I don&#039;t know either man personally, so perhaps when a structural/space/technology need rises, they would say to ignore it, sell it and move the church, or if absolutely necessary, buy cheap.  But I doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MRS, </p>
<p>I was checking back to see if anyone responded to your Chandler/Platt question and it appears no one has.  As I alluded to earlier, churches who don&#8217;t &#8220;seem to mind doing away with that sort of thing&#8221; (ie. steeples and the like) are still spending money &#8212; and lots of it&#8211; on things other than missions.  I am not as familiar with the facilities at Chandler&#8217;s church, but those at The Church at Brook Hills are first-rate.  They may have been built before Platt arrived, but they are being maintained and improved during his tenure.  No doubt with a wise balance and a clear priority on the Gospel.  But, make no mistake, non-missional spending is taking place and it is spending that I&#8217;m sure is being done with the belief that it will help them accomplish their goals.  Again, I believe if such expenses are motivated with a desire to care for what God has given you and to update technology as is necessary to fulfill your mission, I would not criticize that.  How many among us would fail to replace the roof on our own homes or repair/replace our furniture when it is showing holes?  Perhaps even more appropriate to the comments at hand, how many of of us are still carrying around a cell phone in a shoulder bag or using a flip phone with no texting or media capability?  Indeed, life without Twitter would be an unthinkable disconnect to some.  (I personally don&#8217;t use Twitter, but I know plenty who do and they use it effectively.)  I suspect, if confronted with this question, both Chandler and Platt would encourage churches to care for what they have, enter into new projects prayerfully and prudently, and spend the absolute most that you can on missions.  I think they would also add that when you spend money on things which can be seen or heard, purchase quality.  I don&#8217;t know either man personally, so perhaps when a structural/space/technology need rises, they would say to ignore it, sell it and move the church, or if absolutely necessary, buy cheap.  But I doubt it.</p>
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		<title>By: MRS</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17235</link>
		<dc:creator>MRS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17235</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to be more specific - what would Dr. Fant and other SBCers concerned with the death of steeples say to someone like David Platt or even Matt Chandler who doesn&#039;t seem to mind doing away with that sort of thing if the money is going to missions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to be more specific &#8211; what would Dr. Fant and other SBCers concerned with the death of steeples say to someone like David Platt or even Matt Chandler who doesn&#8217;t seem to mind doing away with that sort of thing if the money is going to missions?</p>
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		<title>By: bob albright</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17234</link>
		<dc:creator>bob albright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17234</guid>
		<description>&quot;Lift High The Cross&quot; is one of my favorite hymns in the Trinity Hymnal.  I appreciate the visual testimony of Christ&#039;s atoning sacrifice and resurrection our steeple makes to the surrounding community. (And on a jocular note, it does make giving directions easy as we can say, &quot;when you get to..., look for the steeple.&quot;)
I agree with Mike&#039;s post of what Church Architecture says about what and how we think of God and our attitude toward His worship.  
I would also suggest that any congregation whose sanctuary is &quot;sitting empty for most of the week&quot;, should examine its ministry!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Lift High The Cross&#8221; is one of my favorite hymns in the Trinity Hymnal.  I appreciate the visual testimony of Christ&#8217;s atoning sacrifice and resurrection our steeple makes to the surrounding community. (And on a jocular note, it does make giving directions easy as we can say, &#8220;when you get to&#8230;, look for the steeple.&#8221;)<br />
I agree with Mike&#8217;s post of what Church Architecture says about what and how we think of God and our attitude toward His worship.<br />
I would also suggest that any congregation whose sanctuary is &#8220;sitting empty for most of the week&#8221;, should examine its ministry!!</p>
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		<title>By: david c</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17233</link>
		<dc:creator>david c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17233</guid>
		<description>BTW in one of those strange sorts of coincidences, my sermon this Sunday (&quot;Eat Not the &#039;Bread of Anxious Toil&#039; &quot;) opens with a brief retelling of a story about a man obsessed with with adding a monumental spire to the church of which he is Dean (William Golding&#039;s &quot;The Spire&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW in one of those strange sorts of coincidences, my sermon this Sunday (&#8220;Eat Not the &#8216;Bread of Anxious Toil&#8217; &#8220;) opens with a brief retelling of a story about a man obsessed with with adding a monumental spire to the church of which he is Dean (William Golding&#8217;s &#8220;The Spire&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: david c</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17231</link>
		<dc:creator>david c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17231</guid>
		<description>Of course it matters.  The element of vanity and personal preference is significantly diminished when there is a group of folks making the decision rather than an individual.  

But, setting that aside, for me the factors would include the following:

1) Are we really talking specifically about literally adding a steeple to an existing structure?  If so that seems like a move of pure ornamentation, and I would argue against it.

2) If we are not talking about a literal steeple but about adding to our physical structure in some other way: what is our sense of call and mission (ie. who and what is God calling us to be and do) in the community and how would this particular project help advance that?

3) is this the best stewardship of our resources (given #2)?

4) does this project glorify God?  Does it edify people?  What if we don&#039;t do this.  What wil be gained if we do.

and so on.

A very complex and difficult set of questions in other words -- which will reveal to us a lot about ourselves and how we understand God and his calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it matters.  The element of vanity and personal preference is significantly diminished when there is a group of folks making the decision rather than an individual.  </p>
<p>But, setting that aside, for me the factors would include the following:</p>
<p>1) Are we really talking specifically about literally adding a steeple to an existing structure?  If so that seems like a move of pure ornamentation, and I would argue against it.</p>
<p>2) If we are not talking about a literal steeple but about adding to our physical structure in some other way: what is our sense of call and mission (ie. who and what is God calling us to be and do) in the community and how would this particular project help advance that?</p>
<p>3) is this the best stewardship of our resources (given #2)?</p>
<p>4) does this project glorify God?  Does it edify people?  What if we don&#8217;t do this.  What wil be gained if we do.</p>
<p>and so on.</p>
<p>A very complex and difficult set of questions in other words &#8212; which will reveal to us a lot about ourselves and how we understand God and his calling.</p>
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		<title>By: C. Ehrlich</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17230</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Ehrlich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17230</guid>
		<description>David C, it doesn&#039;t really matter whether we imagine the money entrusted to one individual thinking alone or to a group of individuals thinking together.  The basic question is of course the same:  What factors should they be considering? Under what circumstances would it be appropriate to splurge on that steeple?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David C, it doesn&#8217;t really matter whether we imagine the money entrusted to one individual thinking alone or to a group of individuals thinking together.  The basic question is of course the same:  What factors should they be considering? Under what circumstances would it be appropriate to splurge on that steeple?</p>
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		<title>By: david c</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17229</link>
		<dc:creator>david c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17229</guid>
		<description>C. Ehrlich,

A question about the scenario you&#039;ve painted?  In most cases pastors by themselves have much less of the kind of control over finances and building projects than you seem to believe (or at least portray here).  Fact is, that if I were to conceive of a major structural addition to our church building there would have to be a consultative process that involved both a higher denominational authority, a decision by our church&#039;s governing board, and (probably) a vote by the congregation (who would then have to be tapped for the extra money to build said project).  I would say that a similar process would have to take place in most of the churches in which most of the readers of this blog worship.  

The independent church with the autocratic pastor who has sole control over the spending of tens of thousands of dollars is so rare as to be vanishingly small.

Thus the factors &quot;running through my head&quot; have almost nothing to do with what I think would &quot;look really sharp&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>C. Ehrlich,</p>
<p>A question about the scenario you&#8217;ve painted?  In most cases pastors by themselves have much less of the kind of control over finances and building projects than you seem to believe (or at least portray here).  Fact is, that if I were to conceive of a major structural addition to our church building there would have to be a consultative process that involved both a higher denominational authority, a decision by our church&#8217;s governing board, and (probably) a vote by the congregation (who would then have to be tapped for the extra money to build said project).  I would say that a similar process would have to take place in most of the churches in which most of the readers of this blog worship.  </p>
<p>The independent church with the autocratic pastor who has sole control over the spending of tens of thousands of dollars is so rare as to be vanishingly small.</p>
<p>Thus the factors &#8220;running through my head&#8221; have almost nothing to do with what I think would &#8220;look really sharp&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: MRS</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17228</link>
		<dc:creator>MRS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17228</guid>
		<description>Also - those big huge highway crosses - meaningful, but they can be quite ugly if not done properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also &#8211; those big huge highway crosses &#8211; meaningful, but they can be quite ugly if not done properly.</p>
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		<title>By: MRS</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17227</link>
		<dc:creator>MRS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17227</guid>
		<description>Deeply appreciate Dr. Fant&#039;s article here, but I wonder how he and others in his denomination feel about one young pastor and writer railing about church buildings that are taking money away from the mission field.   And lots of young, eager pastors thinking similar thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deeply appreciate Dr. Fant&#8217;s article here, but I wonder how he and others in his denomination feel about one young pastor and writer railing about church buildings that are taking money away from the mission field.   And lots of young, eager pastors thinking similar thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: C. Ehrlich</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17226</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Ehrlich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17226</guid>
		<description>You are a pastor, and trusted to your stewardship is a nice chunk of God&#039;s money. Your spartan Sunday meeting place is comfortable and structurally sound.  It has a big and sturdy rough-hewn wooden cross planted prominently in front lawn.  The roof-line of your building, however, is entirely banal.  You lack a steeple.  And a steeple, though a bit pricey, would look really sharp.  

You pray about it, but, as with many other decisions you have to make, you&#039;re not getting any &lt;i&gt;special&lt;/i&gt; divine guidance about this.  So what factors should be running through your head?  Under what circumstances would it be appropriate to splurge on that steeple?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are a pastor, and trusted to your stewardship is a nice chunk of God&#8217;s money. Your spartan Sunday meeting place is comfortable and structurally sound.  It has a big and sturdy rough-hewn wooden cross planted prominently in front lawn.  The roof-line of your building, however, is entirely banal.  You lack a steeple.  And a steeple, though a bit pricey, would look really sharp.  </p>
<p>You pray about it, but, as with many other decisions you have to make, you&#8217;re not getting any <i>special</i> divine guidance about this.  So what factors should be running through your head?  Under what circumstances would it be appropriate to splurge on that steeple?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17225</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17225</guid>
		<description>Architecture has purpose and evokes a response as evidence by this thoughtful post and attested by any architect.  Church architecture should reflect the transcendent God that we serve, particularly our sanctuaries.  Like everything else, they should be a witness to our great God and reflect his Biblical character.

I think current architecture says more about what we (and the architects we choose to design our churches) think of God than our views on the practical use of ministry funds or space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Architecture has purpose and evokes a response as evidence by this thoughtful post and attested by any architect.  Church architecture should reflect the transcendent God that we serve, particularly our sanctuaries.  Like everything else, they should be a witness to our great God and reflect his Biblical character.</p>
<p>I think current architecture says more about what we (and the architects we choose to design our churches) think of God than our views on the practical use of ministry funds or space.</p>
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		<title>By: No Blog is an Island &#8211; 2.25.11 &#171; Nate Navigates the Bible</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17224</link>
		<dc:creator>No Blog is an Island &#8211; 2.25.11 &#171; Nate Navigates the Bible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17224</guid>
		<description>[...] Gene Fant bemoans the demise of that iconic image of American Protestantism, the steeple. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gene Fant bemoans the demise of that iconic image of American Protestantism, the steeple. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CJ</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17213</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17213</guid>
		<description>Good article and comments that follow.  I would add an additional perspective:  our church is in a city that values aesthetics, so as we strive to reach our city, we have chosen to be a good steward of our buildings, even if that has a monetary expense tied to it.  We are going to update them, we are going to repair them, and we are going to preserve them, even though it would cost less to abandon them and move into square footage available at the neighborhood strip mall.  This decision has been made because we believe our Lord values aesthetics as well.  One only has to glance at His handiwork to see that beauty does indeed matter, even as it reflects His character and creativity.  In my opinion, although the intention may be noble, the attitude pendulum in some newer churches has swung too far the other way.  With much pride, criticisms are launched toward those who would preserve older buildings and instruments (can you say pipe organs?) or spend budget dollars on improving their facilities, as if taking care of the things God has provided is somehow analogous to abandoning the Great Commission.  For us, it&#039;s not a question of either/or but rather of both/and.  God perfectly models for us both an appreciation of beauty AND a passion for the lost.  Tragically, when we decide aesthestics, architecture, and artistic beauty no longer matter, we are shedding a part of the image we bear.  Ironically, many of the same crowd who poo-poo spending any money on buildings/architecture, are the very same crowd who think nothing of dropping a small fortune on sound equipment and the latest technological gadgets, crammed into their warehouse worship space, for evangelistic purposes, of course...you know, reaching this generation....not to mention the up-charge they will pay for designer coffee or chai tea.  If their consciences are clean before Christ, there is no reason to question the choices they make in spending the resources God has entrusted to them.  But, their authoritative and often-times sanctimonious remarks against building/renovation projects are misdirected. I greatly appreciate david c&#039;s reminder of Mary&#039;s extravagance.  The scolding of her that was rebuked by our Lord was directly related to the FINANCIAL cost involved with her act of worship.  I enthusiastically applaud any reminder to check our motives and any effort to hold each other accountable, but in our desire to spend wisely and be a good steward, let&#039;s not forget God&#039;s call to truthfully reflect ALL His character.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article and comments that follow.  I would add an additional perspective:  our church is in a city that values aesthetics, so as we strive to reach our city, we have chosen to be a good steward of our buildings, even if that has a monetary expense tied to it.  We are going to update them, we are going to repair them, and we are going to preserve them, even though it would cost less to abandon them and move into square footage available at the neighborhood strip mall.  This decision has been made because we believe our Lord values aesthetics as well.  One only has to glance at His handiwork to see that beauty does indeed matter, even as it reflects His character and creativity.  In my opinion, although the intention may be noble, the attitude pendulum in some newer churches has swung too far the other way.  With much pride, criticisms are launched toward those who would preserve older buildings and instruments (can you say pipe organs?) or spend budget dollars on improving their facilities, as if taking care of the things God has provided is somehow analogous to abandoning the Great Commission.  For us, it&#8217;s not a question of either/or but rather of both/and.  God perfectly models for us both an appreciation of beauty AND a passion for the lost.  Tragically, when we decide aesthestics, architecture, and artistic beauty no longer matter, we are shedding a part of the image we bear.  Ironically, many of the same crowd who poo-poo spending any money on buildings/architecture, are the very same crowd who think nothing of dropping a small fortune on sound equipment and the latest technological gadgets, crammed into their warehouse worship space, for evangelistic purposes, of course&#8230;you know, reaching this generation&#8230;.not to mention the up-charge they will pay for designer coffee or chai tea.  If their consciences are clean before Christ, there is no reason to question the choices they make in spending the resources God has entrusted to them.  But, their authoritative and often-times sanctimonious remarks against building/renovation projects are misdirected. I greatly appreciate david c&#8217;s reminder of Mary&#8217;s extravagance.  The scolding of her that was rebuked by our Lord was directly related to the FINANCIAL cost involved with her act of worship.  I enthusiastically applaud any reminder to check our motives and any effort to hold each other accountable, but in our desire to spend wisely and be a good steward, let&#8217;s not forget God&#8217;s call to truthfully reflect ALL His character.</p>
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		<title>By: lee benson</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17212</link>
		<dc:creator>lee benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17212</guid>
		<description>very good gene, loved the drive through.  nashville is great for road tripping.  ever wonder where the idea of steeples came from?  thanks for the peaceful wonderings.  lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very good gene, loved the drive through.  nashville is great for road tripping.  ever wonder where the idea of steeples came from?  thanks for the peaceful wonderings.  lee</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter Baker</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2011/02/on-the-demise-of-steeples/#comment-17209</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 21:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=10161#comment-17209</guid>
		<description>Good piece.  I wonder what people think about the churches doing gigantic crosses?  We had a church in Houston that did one so big you couldn&#039;t miss it for miles.  I always enjoyed coming upon it as I drove along a vast toll road in town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good piece.  I wonder what people think about the churches doing gigantic crosses?  We had a church in Houston that did one so big you couldn&#8217;t miss it for miles.  I always enjoyed coming upon it as I drove along a vast toll road in town.</p>
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