There’s a balance the Christian has to live in this world. I am a Christian first and foremost, and I am a husband, and father, who would protect my family from harm.

I also would fight as an American to protect women and children.

Romans 13:”For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain.”

This sword is not for spreading peanut butter.

Disagree, but no big deal — it’s not like I think Jack Bauer has any real-life cognates.

Certainly there is a vicarious nature to these films — the thrill of violence-soaked vengeance appeals to whatever blood lust may reside within. But I don’t really think that explains it all. Not nearly.

These are morality tales. Complex ones, ironical ones as befits our so called postmodern age, but morality tales all the same.

nope, you missed the point on 24

1. Are the commands of the Sermon on the Mount conditional upon the existence/extent of state enforced punishment? How just and how extensive must it be?

2. Are Christians supposed to disregard the Sermon on the Mount when they are acting politically? Are the teachings of Jesus more applicable to the purely apolitical actions and attitudes? What would count as a purely apolitical action and attitude in a democracy?

I did not want to be presumptuous. So with your tacit permission, let’s take a look again at your generalization that shall now be particularized with the evil of abortion:

“It is because we recognize there is something wrong with a state that ignores its primary function which has to do with the restraint and punishment of those who do evil, for example, an evil such as abortion.”

The state [the U.S. government, federal, state, and/or local] is supposed to restrain and punish those committing evil abortions instead of ignoring (or in some cases financing or aiding and abetting) the commission of evil abortions.

Obviously, abortion clinic bombers and the killer of abortionist George Tiller should not and must not do what they have done. But at least they do recognize and affirm what you have wrote, they “recognize there is something wrong with a state that ignores its primary function which has to do with the restraint and punishment of those who do evil.”

For the evil of abortion, who is to be punished? The abortionist? And the mother? The one who paid for the abortion?

Who is to be restrained from committing the evil of abortion? The abortionist? The pregnant mother? The one who paid for the abortion?

I’m not sure of your answers to these inquiries, Dr. Baker.

Could it be that what we like about these movies is the sense that the scales of justice (again within the moral universe of the movies in question) have been tipped in the favor of the bad guys and Harry and Wyatt seem to be restoring them to their proper balance? Are we hardwired in some way with a desire for order and justice? Even if that justice comes with a potentially ‘unjust’ cost?

Eastwood, btw, seems to be returning to these themes from his earlier movies with a completely different perspective now. In both Unforgiven and Gran Torino he takes the violent revenge/justice fantasy and turns it around. In Unforgiven the ‘justice’ is tawdry and misshapen — there really is almost no real justice because violence and vengeance twists it so. William Muny is a redeemer figure but is himself unredeemed and must numb himself with alcohol and the promise of money for a different life in order to live with what he must do.

In Gran Torino we see a different (and frankly more Christian) version wherein the protagonist delivers justice but at the cost of sacrificing himself.

Just some thoughts…

Because we live vicariously through them. When Dirty Harry is pointing that gun, we are pointing that gun. When Wyatt earp screams vengence, we scream with him.

Now I still don’t understand all the love for 24, which answers the eternal question, Who Would Jesus Torture.

Hunter Baker, is abortion evil?