The “assumption that we would be a religious people” can be interpreted about a zillion ways, and already is, don’t you think? We could be Amish, or any number of other things, to fit that bill (actually, Amish might not be too bad – they’re good at woodworking and don’t watch TV. Nah, they don’t read books.). I for one would love to see a true revival of orthodoxy, but then we would have to agree about what that is. Catholicism? I’m Lutheran and I can’t go there. Close, but really diametrically . . . (my sincere apologies to Fr. Neuhaus, a hero of my father’s, a Lutheran pastor.).

I think we should forget about Richard Dawkins and that ilk. He’s falling off the edge along with anyone who goes there. The people who buy into those things are the ones we must be ready, as you suggest, to minister to. This is the real calling of the church. I say we sort of get smart and circle the wagons, maybe in a way that “the world” does not recognize. Dawkins is proof that secularists and libertines do not even speak the language. In my experience, when I try to talk to intelligent secularists about real matters of faith and practice and the Christian life in general without leaning into speech that is laced with contemporary religious catch-phrases they are completely nonplussed. They haven’t got a clue. It’s not that I am “speaking Greek” it’s that they are not used to people talking about faith with both intelligence and a sense of authority – as if they actually know what they are saying.

So, let’s get together on some things, and become better “pupils” (disciples) of our Lord, being prepared to give a defense – not with bile and anger, but with all our mind and soul and strength. We could do this better together. You almost seem to be talking about a kind of ecumenism which this site seems to promote. But let’s do it not for our sakes, or even for the sake of America per se, but for the sake of Christ and for the lost sheep he has called us to gather.

I love the DB Hart essay that stirred up some dust over at First Thoughts about why he loves America. Right now I am so jazzed about the Texas Rangers. My father passed away this year and he loved them. He coached my bothers and me in the game and we all sat in the cheap seats as kids waiting fora foul ball that never came. This year, my brother caught one – finally. This year, the team that almost went bankrupt beat the richest team in baseball. Every Christian should hear what Josh Hamilton said when he received his MVP award. Like DB Hart, I love American for the specific and almost immeasurable gifts it has given me, some which bring tears to my eyes like this one – baseball, and in this case, for a moment it seems redeemed from the ugliness of doping, money and egos. All the metaphors coming back to life – home, steal, foul, safe, and sacrifice.

We don’t disagree, not really. But I still think we must always look past this place, wonderful as it is, and see, really see, Christ on the cross and cling only to that alone. But that’s the Lutheran in me. It does not mean I do not love my country. I do, in very specific and particular ways, and I pray for it and for our president even though I struggle to accept (for now) the policies he is unleashing, just as I did when GWB, Cheney and Gonzales were (I think) betraying us (yes, I said “betray” but I don’t wish to pick a fight. In my case, I find myself unable to land squarely in either camp. I wish that were not so, but it is what it is).

Thanks for bothering to reply to me. I really do appreciate this personal response. I spent time in the mission field as younger man and what you say about our brothers and sisters elsewhere is very touching. I think it is most definitely true that they can, will and are teaching us a great deal and drawing us back to the one, holy and apostolic church. Thanks the Lord!

Oh well, I go off on a bit of a rant there. Thanks for this space. God bless you dear brother.

I am really not sure (except for my giving Bush some credit) we disagree. Humility is good . . . i don’t think the USA is a sufficient end for any man. I belong to a global Church and am a subject of Christendom before a citizen of this Republic.

But still, I was born here and Americans are my people. I cannot change that and would not if I could. I love my people and the nation that contains that people. The Bible assures me that all peoples will stand before the throne and I look forward to standing with other Americans.

No matter what I did, or what happens to the USA, I was born an American and culturally will die one. There are many American idols (!) that must be redeemed . . . unless they must be destroyed. I would feel the same way if I had been born in Britain or India. God help me I would love my nation if born in North Korea . . . though my government was so vile.

As friend of Socrates (if he will have me), I believe in right questions. I hope I did not sound as if I did not . . . and the Cross is the center of all or we are nothing. Certainly nothing I wrote denies that.

My dream is for America to prosper, because I am an American . . . not because I am conservative. . . though I am.

Forgive errors as I am writing in an airport on the fly.

I was largely with you right up until the very last sentiment, which sort of flushed it all way for me. But then you can’t have everything. I would expect as much on a conservative blog, and I appreciate the effort to describe this so diligently.

But I guess that is what this essay kind of hopes for that makes it go off the rails for me – a vision of everything, comprehensive, and in some ways it makes America an end in herself. I’m sorry, but ultimately, great gift that she is to the world and human history, we must let that ideal go too. America, if she is anything in all her freedom and what she has meant and might still mean for the rest of humanity, is still only a means to an end for any Christian. She is here so we can better love our neighbor in whatever way that might be.

“No man is a global Christian who is not first a national one. You cannot love the Christian you have not seen, if you cannot love the irritating American parishioner you have seen!”

I’m not sure what this means or implies. Do you mean to invoke a kind of nationalism here? Be a good Christian patriot first and then concern yourself with those poor people in Darfur, or what? I don’t get it. America has a navy afloat that is assisting people all over the world right at this very moment. This is a very good thing. Our values are intrinsically global. Evangelism itself is the call to make disciples of nations. What does that imply?

Anyway, I’m not in the mood to argue whether or not Bush made us “safer” simply because there has not yet been another 9/11. In my book, he does not get credit for that. No matter. I do like a great deal of what you describe – getting rid of TVs or fasting from them, reading, things like that. Maybe some actual prescriptions to follow this would be helpful – a call to spiritual disciplines, prayer, fasting, tithing and other forms of sacrificial giving that are an expression of Christian witness – some outright rejection of the libertine values we are surrounded by and some thoughtful, studied engagement with the secularism of our age instead of the emotionalism, name-calling, slandering of the other, and hyperbolic silliness that passes for “dialogue” these days.

So little humility, so little love. Where in all this is the cross of Christ? We make a lot of statements, perhaps feeling (rightly) that our faith is being drowned out of the public discourse. But at the same time, are we asking good questions of each other, ones that cause us to seek so that we find what is true and not what we would like to be true?