The worship team of which I’m a member will see the video and receive the message. We will keep the focus on reality and the almighty, and not manipulating members of the body of Christ Thanks to NP for having the humility to parody themselves.

As for raising hands, what about the orans position that every Catholic priest embodies when he prays over the bread and wine? Is it not the case that lay people can raise hands today if one of the earliest depictions of prayer is, you guessed it, raised hands?

What about the centering prayer that the Cistercians practice and that Thomas Merton, the most famous monk America has ever produced, took to the east? Is centering prayer with its emphasis on meditative techniques somehow not prayer?

The video is hilarious I think. Let’s just enjoy it as poking fun, instead of seeing it as an indictment of this or that kind of Christianity.

If I were a Catholic, I would not want a certain Catholic order who just recently had to be taken over by the Vatican as the symbol for Catholicism, now would I? Did reciting the Apostles’ Creed and going through the liturgy keep the minister general of that order from committing such grave sin? Does that mean that reciting the Apostles’ Creed is bad? Of course not! Anyone who knows anything about the history of Christianity knows that there are plenty of easy targets out there in all versions.

Let’s have a laugh at one slice of Christianity and leave it. These amusing asides are not symbols of some deeper problem beyond the perennial issues all Christians face.

Repeating phrases? What phrases are you talking about? There is such a thing as vain repetition, of course, but the mere fact of repetition should not automatically be disqualified as vain, or else we should have to think of the many litanies historically found in more liturgical churches as vain. Are they phrases of worship, praise or consecration to Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Are they bringing truth from Scripture? Are they spoken in faith and not in unbelief? How should we NOT recognize that as meaningfully Christian?

I’ve described people finding salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ and being discipled to such an extent that they are experiencing healing and restoration in their marriages and their families in addition to meaningful relationship with God. It is gross reductionism to simply dismiss such examples of salvation and discipleship as “self help.” They are outworkings of the Gospel of Jesus the Messiah. How should we NOT recognize them as meaningfully Christian?

The churches where I have been a part of such worship services preach Jesus as the Lord and Savior who was crucified on our behalf, urging the response of repentance and faith in Him. How should we NOT recognize that as meaningfully Christian?

people raise their hands/ repeat phrases etc.
people appreciate the self help programs.
people generally are better off now than before.

how is that meaningfully and recognizably Christian.

how much of the messages and work in these places absolutely require a crucifies Lord and savior? how much of these messages and work are equally applicable in a mormon or JW gathering, or a community service event?

we have in the video a wonderful example of marketing and coersion, but i question that when Christ asked Peter 3 times “do you love me”? then commanded him, is this even slightly related to what Christ said?

Respectfully,
Pragmatic arguments (i.e. “people are being saved; families restored, etc.) apart from being completely debatable on their own terms, are irrelevant. It does not matter if the expected consequences are positive; this is irrelevant to whether or not something is true. And the question at hand is this: is this type of service meaningfully or recognizably Christian in any way?

Perhaps it is meaningfully Christian. Obviously, this is what is being debated. But the truth of that assertion is not dependant on its consequence.

I actually agree with you. There is a hierarchy of truth

I don’t think Jesus weeps any more over this kind of church than He does over your church. There is enough well-deserved criticism to go around.

At least North Point Church has enough self-awareness to recognize the dangers of their own type of church and the willingness to poke some fun at themselves with what are some pretty stinging barbs.

There have been changes in places of meeting, and there have been changes in language, but it’s no secret that the most ancient Christian liturgies have changed very little and are used today.