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	<title>Comments on: Christian Ed. and the Risks of On-the-Job Training</title>
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	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Albert Lee</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8813</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What is needed depends on the locale, resources, and particulars of each church and its tradition.  My church is fortunate to be located in a university city and many of the elders are well-educated.  We are able to have an intensive, formal, year-long theological and pastoral training program for our elder candidates where they go through the WCF and numerous other books with existing elders, at the end of which they must pass a written examination.  Not all churches have the resources to be able to do this, but those that are given much by the Lord should do something like or even better than this.  Our Sunday adult education classes are taught by teaching elders but also from regular members of the congregation who have particular gifts and wisdom in their fields; all classes and curricula are screened by the elder session. 

I think I understand what you mean by excessive emphasis on &quot;leadership development&quot; which ranges in how beneficial it is, some such programs having inadvertently imported assumptions and practices of the &quot;corporate excellence&quot; world, e.g. elder session as &quot;board of directors.&quot;  Personally, I think the whole &quot;servant leadership&quot; fad has been taken too far.  How about we train some servant followers who submit to our overseers, church authority, and ultimately to Christ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is needed depends on the locale, resources, and particulars of each church and its tradition.  My church is fortunate to be located in a university city and many of the elders are well-educated.  We are able to have an intensive, formal, year-long theological and pastoral training program for our elder candidates where they go through the WCF and numerous other books with existing elders, at the end of which they must pass a written examination.  Not all churches have the resources to be able to do this, but those that are given much by the Lord should do something like or even better than this.  Our Sunday adult education classes are taught by teaching elders but also from regular members of the congregation who have particular gifts and wisdom in their fields; all classes and curricula are screened by the elder session. </p>
<p>I think I understand what you mean by excessive emphasis on &#8220;leadership development&#8221; which ranges in how beneficial it is, some such programs having inadvertently imported assumptions and practices of the &#8220;corporate excellence&#8221; world, e.g. elder session as &#8220;board of directors.&#8221;  Personally, I think the whole &#8220;servant leadership&#8221; fad has been taken too far.  How about we train some servant followers who submit to our overseers, church authority, and ultimately to Christ?</p>
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		<title>By: Holly Ordway</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8781</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly Ordway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8781</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great question. Teaching, as a skill, requires both knowledge of the subject and the ability to present it effectively. I would argue that &quot;leadership training&quot; (whatever that is...) is not the same thing as learning how to teach. Teaching is leading, but in a very distinct sense. 

My church started an Adult Christian Formation program about three years ago, and it is by all accounts doing very well and meeting a real need. In between the second and third services on Sunday, there&#039;s a 45-minute lecture on some topic related to Christian formation (theology, Bible studies, apologetics, sin and grace, world religions, prayer, etc...) Most of the time, these lectures are linked into a series, so we get two, three, or four consecutive lectures exploring a particular topic. 

I think what makes it work is that it&#039;s not all one pastor doing this. We have our full-time rector and curate, but we also have a wonderful retired priest who is a marvelous teacher. Then we have non-clergy who occasionally give lectures as well, based on their fields of expertise. So, this year we have had our rector talk about the state of the Anglican communion, and Anglican church history; our curate has a whole series of talks scheduled on gender, marriage, and chastity (from an orthodox perspective!), our retired priest did a series on the problem of innocent suffering (moving through Buddism, Islam, and Judaism before explaining how Christianity resolves it). 

There&#039;s no way that any one person could know the material well enough to lecture on all these different topics... so having a team of teachers allows for a broad range of important subjects to be covered, with the teacher well matched to the subject in each case. It doesn&#039;t all have to be clergy, either. I&#039;ve actually become part of the regular &quot;teaching team&quot; along side our three priests, even though I am just a regular parishioner; I bring different subject-area strengths to the table (literature and philosophy).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great question. Teaching, as a skill, requires both knowledge of the subject and the ability to present it effectively. I would argue that &#8220;leadership training&#8221; (whatever that is&#8230;) is not the same thing as learning how to teach. Teaching is leading, but in a very distinct sense. </p>
<p>My church started an Adult Christian Formation program about three years ago, and it is by all accounts doing very well and meeting a real need. In between the second and third services on Sunday, there&#8217;s a 45-minute lecture on some topic related to Christian formation (theology, Bible studies, apologetics, sin and grace, world religions, prayer, etc&#8230;) Most of the time, these lectures are linked into a series, so we get two, three, or four consecutive lectures exploring a particular topic. </p>
<p>I think what makes it work is that it&#8217;s not all one pastor doing this. We have our full-time rector and curate, but we also have a wonderful retired priest who is a marvelous teacher. Then we have non-clergy who occasionally give lectures as well, based on their fields of expertise. So, this year we have had our rector talk about the state of the Anglican communion, and Anglican church history; our curate has a whole series of talks scheduled on gender, marriage, and chastity (from an orthodox perspective!), our retired priest did a series on the problem of innocent suffering (moving through Buddism, Islam, and Judaism before explaining how Christianity resolves it). </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no way that any one person could know the material well enough to lecture on all these different topics&#8230; so having a team of teachers allows for a broad range of important subjects to be covered, with the teacher well matched to the subject in each case. It doesn&#8217;t all have to be clergy, either. I&#8217;ve actually become part of the regular &#8220;teaching team&#8221; along side our three priests, even though I am just a regular parishioner; I bring different subject-area strengths to the table (literature and philosophy).</p>
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		<title>By: Collin Brendemuehl</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8767</link>
		<dc:creator>Collin Brendemuehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8767</guid>
		<description>Of course.  But I expect we spend less &lt;i&gt;quality time&lt;/i&gt; on the how-to than you might imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course.  But I expect we spend less <i>quality time</i> on the how-to than you might imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah J. Flashing</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8765</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah J. Flashing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 01:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8765</guid>
		<description>i think both are critical, but I think we spend more time on how to do it rather than on what we&#039;re doing....imho.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think both are critical, but I think we spend more time on how to do it rather than on what we&#8217;re doing&#8230;.imho.</p>
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		<title>By: Collin Brendemuehl</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8753</link>
		<dc:creator>Collin Brendemuehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8753</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s add real teacher training to theological training.  Both are critical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s add real teacher training to theological training.  Both are critical.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Graham</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8687</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8687</guid>
		<description>Take a look at www.biblicaltraining.org.  Bill Mounce (of Basic Greek fame) has put together an excellent resource specifically targeted toward the adequate training of biblical elders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take a look at <a href="http://www.biblicaltraining.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicaltraining.org</a>.  Bill Mounce (of Basic Greek fame) has put together an excellent resource specifically targeted toward the adequate training of biblical elders.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Smith</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8677</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8677</guid>
		<description>Our church recently instituted a year-long training program for prospective elders that is theologically rigorous, according to a friend of mine who just completed it. They use a formal program of study. That is the good news.

The not-so-good-news is that many existing elders probably need this training, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our church recently instituted a year-long training program for prospective elders that is theologically rigorous, according to a friend of mine who just completed it. They use a formal program of study. That is the good news.</p>
<p>The not-so-good-news is that many existing elders probably need this training, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8671</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8671</guid>
		<description>I think this might be a pessimistic post, but I also think you have some very valid concerns.  When I was coming to the faith almost six years ago, someone gave me a Bible with the kind of questions you mentioned in your post:  &quot;How does this make you feel?  What in your life resonates with this?&quot;  Suffice it to say, I did not understand any of the theology behind what I was reading, and it was not until the second or third time I read Hebrews with a good commentary that I understood the significance of the priesthood of Christ in comparison to the priesthood of Melchizedek, let alone understand any of the references to the Old Testament sacrifices or how Christ is a new and better sacrifice.

Before finding a church to attend, I also attended a variety of churches where the main crux of the sermon was &quot;Are you saved?&quot;  And I knew back then that such sermons on a Sunday would get old and that I would thirst for something deeper.

I still struggle to find good a good Bible study with other people outside Sunday at church.  A lot of people don&#039;t want to take the time to delve deeper into Scripture and to know about what it really says.  And as you articulate in your post, many studies revolve around how Scripture makes a person feel and the kinds of emotions it engenders.  Right now I use commentaries on my own in studying, and I do use several online resources as well as talk to my priest a great deal about prayer, theology, and spiritual growth one-on-one.  I also have two close friends with whom I talk about theology much of the time.  But I wish I had something more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this might be a pessimistic post, but I also think you have some very valid concerns.  When I was coming to the faith almost six years ago, someone gave me a Bible with the kind of questions you mentioned in your post:  &#8220;How does this make you feel?  What in your life resonates with this?&#8221;  Suffice it to say, I did not understand any of the theology behind what I was reading, and it was not until the second or third time I read Hebrews with a good commentary that I understood the significance of the priesthood of Christ in comparison to the priesthood of Melchizedek, let alone understand any of the references to the Old Testament sacrifices or how Christ is a new and better sacrifice.</p>
<p>Before finding a church to attend, I also attended a variety of churches where the main crux of the sermon was &#8220;Are you saved?&#8221;  And I knew back then that such sermons on a Sunday would get old and that I would thirst for something deeper.</p>
<p>I still struggle to find good a good Bible study with other people outside Sunday at church.  A lot of people don&#8217;t want to take the time to delve deeper into Scripture and to know about what it really says.  And as you articulate in your post, many studies revolve around how Scripture makes a person feel and the kinds of emotions it engenders.  Right now I use commentaries on my own in studying, and I do use several online resources as well as talk to my priest a great deal about prayer, theology, and spiritual growth one-on-one.  I also have two close friends with whom I talk about theology much of the time.  But I wish I had something more.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth Unites... and Divides</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/03/christian-ed-and-the-risks-of-on-the-job-training/#comment-8652</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth Unites... and Divides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/?p=5747#comment-8652</guid>
		<description>I think you have a valid concern, Sarah.

I do wish that more lay folks were more motivated to read more and learn more theology and doctrine on their own and to see how it informs individual and corporate praxis so that they make better disciples in addition to being a better disciple themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have a valid concern, Sarah.</p>
<p>I do wish that more lay folks were more motivated to read more and learn more theology and doctrine on their own and to see how it informs individual and corporate praxis so that they make better disciples in addition to being a better disciple themselves.</p>
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