Comments on: Vatican Official Proposes Ecumenical Catechism

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Weekly Roundup « Biblical Paths — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:34:03 +0000

[...] is a Ecumenical Catechism - is that even possible, one must [...]

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An Ecumenical Catechism | Cranach: The Blog of Veith — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:01:19 +0000

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By: TomG

TomG — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:01:11 +0000

Cardinal Kasper is a holdover – and somewhat of an ecumaniac as well. At 77, he is certainly not the face of ecumenism (whatever the heck that is) going forward anyway. IMO, if he weren’t a fellow countryman of that guy whose name escapes me, he would already be long gone.

By: Dale Coulter

Dale Coulter — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:38:58 +0000

I could see the possibility of an ecumenical catechism that would attempt to synthesize four decades of agreements primarily through bilateral dialogues. The problem behind Kasper’s statement is real enough. Most people simply do not know how much agreement has been reached. The catechism could be connected, as most are, to doctrinal agreements already reached and thus cite those agreements as legitimate doctrinal statements.

One need only look at the volumes Jeff Gros et al. have published under the title “Growth in Agreement” to see how much is already there. I personally like the idea.

By: Louie Verrecchio

Louie Verrecchio — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:48:52 +0000

LOL! You’re right, Reverend, I would demur, but the notion of a Lutheran pastor suggesting that the Catholic Church simply accept the Augsburg Confession makes a whole lot more sense to me than the idea that Cardinal Kasper floated. I’m not sure, however, that Cd. Kasper’s idea had much in the way of official influence as you suggest. This wouldn’t be the first time the cardinal spoke out of turn. I could be incorrect, but I suspect he did so once again.

By: Rev. Paul T. McCain

Rev. Paul T. McCain — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:00:08 +0000

I suspect it was a very intentionally made remark, all part of Rome's general approach these days. I too think it doesn't stand a ghost of a chance of coming to fruition in any genuinely meaningful sense, and frankly, I see no point to it anyway. Besides, I have a much better suggestion for the Roman Curia. If they would but simply grant the points made in this document, that would go a very long way in healing the Roman Church's self-inflicted wounds in the 16th century. I suspect you might demur.

By: Louie Verrecchio

Louie Verrecchio — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:27:49 +0000

Yes, Rev. McCain, but truth be told, this most recent suggestion by Cd. Kasper is essentially on the same order, i.e. it has no more official backing from Rome than the 1975 project did. The story gets blurry only because a Prince of the Church made these unfortunate remarks.

I think we can reasonably expect this idea to quietly and quickly fade away.

By: Rev. Paul T. McCain

Rev. Paul T. McCain — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:18:07 +0000

I noticed that too.

By: Rev. Paul T. McCain

Rev. Paul T. McCain — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:14:25 +0000

I would say the difference between what Cardinal Kasper said, and what this article from 1975 describes, is rather dramatic. The 1975 was an ad hoc informal effort by a self-appointed group, without sanction by the Vatican.

By: Louie Verrecchio

Louie Verrecchio — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:13:51 +0000

BTW – notice how both Ms. Wooden of CNS and Cardinal Kasper both insist upon referring to ecclesial communities as “churches.” We should expect better of both of them.

By: Louie Verrecchio

Louie Verrecchio — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:11:04 +0000

This “ecumenical catechism” idea is not original.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,879494,00.html

It will never leave the ground officially because it contradicts the Church’s long held teaching that authentic ecumenism addresses our differences, it does not simply celebrate common ground.

This is a perfect example of confirming another in their error and the equivalent of offering the hungry stones instead of bread.

If anyone is interested in my most recent Catholic News Agency column on the topic, it can be viewed here:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/column.php?n=1120

By: Rev. Paul T. McCain

Rev. Paul T. McCain — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:55:01 +0000

I believe that Rome can always be counted on to be Rome. This is not something about which it can say about many, if any, of its dialogue partners. And Rome knows that. As much as I strongly disagree with the Roman Catholic Church, I have far more respect for it, when it comes to being consistent to its historic doctrinal positions, than I do with, for example, the Lutheran World Federation, which continues to compromise away everything distinct about the historic Lutheran doctrinal position. I cite the LWF as but one example, among many, of such worldwide organizations of Christian Churches.

Rome never compromises its basic doctrinal positions. It can therefore make magnanimous gestures, such as this one, and such as the one the Pope made several months ago toward disaffected Anglican clergy in England.

Back to the Catechism. I do not regard Cardinal Kasper’s statements about it to be very realistic, but it was and is a magnanimous gesture, and, from the perspective of Rome, a very smart move.

I can only but think that when you examine the liberal mainline protestant churches and the state of doctrine in these church bodies, such a Catechism would probably be an improvement.

Rome will never enter into any kind of full communion relationship with church bodies that ordain women and homosexuals and that support abortion rights. These two points, alone, would be “deal breakers.” But Rome has learned the art of patience and has many years of practice at it.

Historically, many points of view can come under the umbrella of Roman Catholicism, as long as they all concede to the claims of Papal primacy. It is very much akin to the old Roman Empire’s way of doing things.

By: Rev. Paul T. McCain

Rev. Paul T. McCain — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:31:44 +0000

Somebody from the Roman Catholic Church might want to respond to your comment, but I found a web site that provides useful information about Annulments:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/marriage/mf0044.html

By: JSullivan

JSullivan — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:33:50 +0000

I think Rev. McCain pointing at the issue of authority — who would have the authority to issue such a catechism and on whom would it be binding?

The only answer I can think of for both questions is “no one,” which makes me wonder what the point is in the first place.

By: seeking rome

seeking rome — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:19:19 +0000

I’m not sure what it would look like, but as one of many who seek to cross the Tiber I yearn that it could be easier. I don’t fault the catholic church for fidelity to the faith, but it isn’t easy to convert. The requirement to annul prior marriages is one example that keeps some from committing to the true faith.

Surely there must be a middle road between unrooted membership requirements of many protestant faiths and the formalism of catholicism.