As an Evangelical blog of record, I suppose someone must say it here:
Pat Robertson’s statements on Haiti are bad theology, bad philosophy, bad history, and bad pastorally.
It is tempting not to pile on in the case of a fellow believer who is older, does a great deal of good through charity, and has a long habit of saying this sort of thing. Robertson, however, remains a public figure and there is some chance that ill-informed Christians might take his view seriously.
Robertson has proposed a bad theology, because he too easily equates any natural or man made disaster with Gods’ will. The Lord Jesus points out that God causes it to rain on the just and the unjust. As Saint Augustine points out when some Roman era pagan Pat Robertson’s blamed Christians for the fall of Rome, God’s providence and will are not easy to see.
Even some seeming blessings can be curses.
He specifically addressed the issue of whether natural disaster are because the victims are somehow worse than others when he said (Luke 13):
1There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? 3No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? 5No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
All of us are broken and will die. Nobody is safe and nobody should take their righteousness for granted.
Even if we grant that sometimes a prophet in the Bible (Amos) could, by divine revelation, equate a natural disaster with God’s judgment this should be done carefully. This kind of insight is available to few of us and Robertson has not demonstrated a track record (prophetic accuracy) that meets the Biblical standard for accuracy (Deuteronomy 18):
21And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
All of this ignores the philosophical questions revolving around whether one government leader two hundred years ago could actually sell a country to Satan. (Assuming such a thing could happen.) Who gave him that right? On what was that right based? Was he an anointed king in the Biblical sense? Did the thousands of believers in Haiti at that time consent? Does Satan really have the power to own an entire nation, containing millions of believers in an out of government, for centuries based on one man’s deal?
This is dubious philosophy of religion and bad theology.
Even if we grant that Robertson was merely speculating on the causes of the disaster, he would do well to base his arguments on better history. The tale he recounts is likely false.
Robertson has been inhuman in two ways.
First, even if he were right, he has picked a horrid time to pontificate. When my friend is suffering from cancer, even if it is his fault, it is the wrong time to remind him that I told him he should have stopped smoking. It is ugly and useless.
Heal the sick, bury the dead, feed the hungry and then deal with root spiritual causes. Safe to say every nation, and Haiti is surely one, has made philosophical and practical decisions that help cause tragedy. We can talk about that when the people of Haiti have been helped by the Church.
Second, even if his theology were sound, he has stated it in such a way and at such a time that it will be misunderstood and will be mocked. He has pronounced a “truth” that (he must concede) would be hard for our culture to hear in a way and at a time that brings that “truth” into derision.
If Robertson were right in his theology and philosophy, his timing has fed his pearls to swine on a silver platter.
Recently Robertson faced major health problems and rightly asked for our prayers. It would have been wrong to be facile and associate his problems with sin. Robertson should grant the people of Haiti the same treatment that he demanded in the case of his illness.
Compassion, prayer, help, and charity.
(*I have a follow up post on the issue of torture responding to critics, but thought this an inappropriate time for that topic. I will do so later.)
January 14th, 2010 | 2:21 pm | #1
Is anyone going to disagree that Pat Robertson needs to hang it up and stop making Christianity look atrocious? I hate hearing him talk. On any subject.
January 14th, 2010 | 2:24 pm | #2
Pat Robertson is a disgrace, repeating legendary accounts, and compounding the error by doing so on the day of this horrible tragedy.
When I watched the video of his remarks I immediately was reminded of Proverbs 18:2
“A fool takes no pleasure in understanding,but only in expressing his opinion.”
January 14th, 2010 | 2:25 pm | #3
Mr. Turk, by my count we have now found ourselves in total agreement, four times already in this New Year. What does this mean?
January 14th, 2010 | 2:51 pm | #4
Is it time for a call of legitimate Christian organizations to disassociate in every way with PR and his organizations. I recall a conservative blogger, Jon Henke, calling on the legitimate conservative organizations to do the same to lunatic fringe conservative group World Net Daily a few months back. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jb0D94C5E&feature=player_embedded)
PR gets coverage as a Christian speaking for other Christians, but I would classify him along with WND as lunatic fringe. I think it is time for legitimate Christian organizations to come out strongly against PR. His comments are damaging the name of Christ. I do not question PR’s salvation for his comments, as that is not my place, I only question his role as a public Christian leader.
January 14th, 2010 | 3:01 pm | #5
I blogged today at “On Faith” and Scriptorium about the lazy media habit of going to Pat and other such folk to speak for “us.”
We should all stop dignifying lunacy with attention. I realize that repudiating this statement perpetuates this attention to an extent, but once he is quoted in big venues read by many as speaking for “us” somebody is going to have to say, “Well, no.”
Why, why, why doesn’t Dallas Willard get half the attention?
He is a best selling author, USC professor, and major speaker. He influences thousands of young Evangelicals.
Sigh.
January 14th, 2010 | 3:02 pm | #6
Look! We all agree.
I weep with joy.
January 14th, 2010 | 3:12 pm | #7
Rev McCain –
I checked with pat Robertson, and he says that this is the abomination of desolation. So we’re fine.
:-)
January 14th, 2010 | 3:13 pm | #8
I also wanted to point out that the only sure-fire way to get JMR to post is for me to post. he bumps me every time.
January 14th, 2010 | 3:18 pm | #9
Wow, Frank. I had not noticed that.
I post when I am not swamped . . . we must have similar “busy-ness” schedules.
January 14th, 2010 | 3:20 pm | #10
I mark it up to spiritual conspiracy in the heavenlies. And in the blogosphere.
Joe Carter at least has something to do with it.
January 14th, 2010 | 3:33 pm | #11
[...] John Mark Reynolds on Pat Robertson’s statement that Haiti is under a curse for making a pact with the devil. [...]
January 14th, 2010 | 4:28 pm | #12
[...] of true Christianity (and I hope you weren’t), consider taking a couple minutes to read the response from John Mark Reynolds (a professor at Biola). In addition to stating the obvious [...]
January 14th, 2010 | 4:36 pm | #13
Screwtape: lets allow these silly humans focus on Pat Robertson’s poor supporting points instead of the argument that he was attempting to make.
John Mark, whether you choose to agree or disagree with Robertson’s points regarding sin is irrelevant. The argument that he was attempting to make was this: let’s come together as Christians to pray for the Haitians and unite in providing support for the victims.
I can’t say that I have ever watched Robertson’s network, but it’s evident that many Christians and non-Christians alike are buying the “edited video excerpt” that is being sold by the liberal media in an attempt to destroy Christian media outlets and Christianity altogether.
If readers here have the time, view Robertson’s show in its entirety and you’ll see the true argument that he is trying to make to his viewers: to PRAY and to GIVE and to take ACTION.
Now that is something worthy to blog about.
January 14th, 2010 | 4:40 pm | #14
I probably should not even use an event in Jesus’ day as a parallel; however, the Lord uses comparatives to indicate that he did not want his hearers to “imagine” that tragedy that occurs every time to indicate that it is necessarily a judgment certain peoples endure because of being “worse” sinners than others. People perish different ways–some physically and spiritually; some physically alone. Yet, because of the sin principle, all will perish eternally without repentance. Ponder,then, what the meaning of death really involves. In Luke 13:1-5, it seems that our Lord presents two different events as examples: One, a deliberate massacre; the other, an accident of fate. Some of us speak “ill-advisedly” with our lips and consequently, should ask in prayer that the Lord “set a ‘keeper/guard/watcher’j for my mouth; guard over the door of my lips” (Psa. 141:3).
January 14th, 2010 | 5:16 pm | #15
Oh plz. even if it’s so. The scriptures says “How are the mighty fallen” bcz they have risen up against God’s anointing. If u all have anything to say pray for Pat & then contact him.
January 14th, 2010 | 5:35 pm | #16
100 years ago it would have taken us weeks to find out about this info.
50 years ago, it would have taken a few days
20 years ago, it would have taken until the evening newscast or next morning newspaper.
Today, we heard within minutes or hours.
We do have a responsiblity to react with speed since we have been given ‘technology.”
“To whom much is given, much is required”, right?
I blogged about this over at http://www.redletterbelievers.com and have a list of 15 reputable relief agencies.
David Rupert
Red Letter Believers Blog
“Salt and Light”
http://www.redletterbelievers.com
January 14th, 2010 | 6:05 pm | #17
[...] us of our own self-centeredness, and force us to reconsider our theology by the cold of reality.John Mark Reynolds also makes some good points about the appropriateness of Robertson’s comments: Robertson has [...]
January 14th, 2010 | 6:38 pm | #18
[...] You can read Reynold’s full post, HERE. [...]
January 14th, 2010 | 7:12 pm | #19
Mr. Johnson, Mr. Robertson is a blight on Christianity in this country.
I watched the whole segment. He could have called for prayer and aid perfectly well without resorting to his asinine remark. You are trying to paper over yet another example of foolishness.
Sonia, Mr. Robertson is not “anointed by God” and because his remarks were broadcast on public airwaves, there is nothing “private” about this requiring private admonition. He is a public false prophet and is to be rejected and condemned as such.
When people putting themselves forward as Christian leaders say these kinds of things they bring shame and disgrace on all Christians.
I am not going to attempt to make excuses and overlook this kind of idiotic behavior. Nor will I join in the “Oh, poor Pat Robertson, look how the liberal media is out to get him” chorus. The man said, what he said. It is plain as day.
It is disgusting and beneath contempt. And it must be described as such in no uncertain terms. The sad thing is that there are still enough people out there pumping money into his organization.
January 14th, 2010 | 7:22 pm | #20
At a time when foks all over the world are having a test of faith in the God that Restores, Loves, Cares and Protects… Mr. Pat Robertson once again opens his mouth, speaking his opinion, and hurts the work of the Kingdom. What appears to many Christians as a man with no rational system of integrity and understanding of the truth of the Gospel is seen by many others as the CREDIBLE VOICE OF THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT. Sadly to many of the Christian right – we simply think much like the public does – his comments are dumb, dumber and… dumberer…
The world hears the voice of someone like Mr. Pat Robertson as he speaks his opinions as if they are are right from the Mouth of the Living God and it makes the job of those who are doing serious Kingdom work that much more difficult. Mr. Robertson, after inventing his new opinion, acts overly passionate about it – often to hide his ignorance.
Max Lucado writes – “The Universe’s Commander in Chief knows your name. He has walked your streets… There is no person he won’t touch. No place he won’t go to find you. For even though he is in heaven, he has never left the neighborhood.” To me that describes the Jesus I love and worship. A Living God that never leaves nor forsakes (Hebrews 13:5).
As a pastor, perhaps one of the hardest tasks I ever had, was knowing what to say at a funeral. I once had a District Superintendant in Pennsylvania for a Mainline denomination tell me that it was the wrong time to give an alter call…
“Sir, he is already dead…”
I simply replied – “This message, like all funeral messages is not for the dead … but for the Living – and so that they may Live Life More Abundantly.” Christ declared “I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE…” and for some reason Pat Robertson decides once again – during a tragedy Now is the time to show the gd of Punishment and Dispair.
I believe the Christian Church, not just the Methodist, or the Baptist, or the Disciples of Christ, or the Church of Christ in Christian Union, (or place your denomination of choice here…) should all call for Mr. Pat Robertson to simply do one thing… APOLOGIZE & THEN SHUT UP!
“Though the fig-tree does not bud and there are no grapes on the vines, though the olive crop fails and the fields produce no foot, though there are no sheep in the pen and no cattle in the stalls, yet I will rejoice in the Lord. I will be joyful in God My Savior” – Habakkuk 3:17,18
The wilderness is a hard place to be, I have been there. As a homeless child, selling my body in order to have a piece of food or a warm bed. The struggle has been a long hard road… BUT I have a God that is Victorious. My Trials were so that God would have the ability to TRIUMPH in my life, my tests are HIS TESTIMONY. There is always something to Rejoice in. REJOICE THAT GOD IS STILL GOD – AND THAT HIS LOVE ENDURES FOREVER!
Mr. Pat Robertson – your opinions are not facts. They are not representative of the Christian Population. More important, they are not representative of the Loving, Living, & Forgiving Savior – The God that we Serve. I am far from someone that believes in being Politically Correct. Erwan McManus has an entire book that is worth reading for any man called the Barbarian Way… We are not called to be Politically Correct – but we are called to be Morally and Spiritually Correct.
Mr. Robertson, you could have used this time of hurting the Kingdom for something much more… Did you not stop to think about those who are on site, the many who have passed and their families? The Christians who have allowed their world to be turned upside down to become the hands and feet of the King of Kings…
Did you not stop to think about the servants of the King who are missing – the churches and families who may never see their loved ones until Glory?
* Members of a Dallas mission team working at an eye-care clinic were injured in the Jan. 12 Haiti earthquake,
* Two Indiana churches are still waiting for news about their members…
* Sam Dixon, top executive of the United Methodist Committee on Relief;
* Clinton Rabb, head of Mission Volunteers (United Methodist)
* & James Gulley, an UMCOR consultant
* 21-Missionary team members from the Presbyterian Church of Lawrenceville NJ, Shiloh Baptist Church in Trenton and Kingdom Church of Ewing NJ
* Many Hoosiers with families in Haiti have not heard from them since the quake hit.
* Red cross estimages 50K have died… This is not something to rejoice in – but rather something to be sorrowful over… How many of them Did not know Christ?
Mr. Robertson – your heart seems to narrow to Contain the Joy of the Savior. Paul tells us
“For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.” 2 Cor 1:5…
Mr Robertson, just as Paul and Silas were able to overcome less than favorable situations and worship God – so should we. This is a time for Revival – not for judgment. Your words, your pulpit, your show DIVIDES THE CHURCH – it HYPNOTIZES THE WORLD – IT IS A CHALLENGE OF EPIC PROPORTIONS for the unsaved.
Mr. Robertson I call for a public apology from you to the World, to the Unsaved and the Saved !
Do not let anyone treat you as if you are unimportant … Instead be an example other believers with your words, your actions, your love, your faith and your pure Life. (1 Tim 4:12 CEV ) Sir, The world is sleeping in a dark that church is finding hard to fight… because people like you – who are Leaders but not leading are simply ASLEEP in the Light. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your father who is in heaven( Matt 5:16) NOT speak the persecution of a tyrant, ungodly with no remedy causing the world to fear and disdain the God of Love, Mercy and Justice.
Jesus told us that Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God. Mr. Robertson – create peace and end the persecution of the Church your comments have caused time and time again.
One last note:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/world/americas/14scene.html
Hatians singing “Blessed be the Lord” during their suffering!
“One phrase in Creole could be heard repeatedly both inside and outside the hospital walls, as if those voicing the words were trying to make sense of the madness around them.
“Beni Swa Leternel,” they sang. “Blessed be the Lord.”
January 14th, 2010 | 8:37 pm | #21
Am I the only one who has noticed that Robertson has been going senile for the last decade? I can’t say whether or not he means well, but he clearly is showing signs of a man who is losing his mental faculties and doesn’t know it. Where did he even get this story about Haitians selling their souls to the Devil and did he bother to double-check it before telling the whole world? This is simple stuff that a healthy human being would think of before making a public statement on national television.
January 15th, 2010 | 7:35 am | #22
[...] A Response to Pat Robertson’s Remarks by John Mark Reynolds from First Things [...]
January 15th, 2010 | 8:13 am | #23
Robertson’s history may be faulty.
The timing of his remarks may be debatable, although it was a media sound bite, and the media is not much interested in Robertson’s expressions of compassion and appeals for help for Haiti. His brief controversial statement should be kept in context. His organization has been quick on the scene in Haiti in this disaster, just as it has been in the past for other similar emergencies. Nor has he attributed this current disaster to the wrath of God. Nor has he given them a message of despair, but of hope. His organization, CBN, has released this statement about his remarks. I suspect that Robertson is responsible, through Operation Blessing, for more actual help getting down to Haiti than anyone here has been able to offer.
As to his theology regarding this, is it possible for places and things to be defiled and cursed because of certain spiritual acts, just as places and things can be consecrated and blessed because of certain spiritual acts? Can spiritual acts really have physical consequences?
When Adam sinned against God, did that not bring curse upon the earth? (e.g., Genesis 3:17)
Can sexual immorality defile a land? Leviticus 18 lists various forms of sexual immorality: fornications, adulteries, homosexuality, and bestiality. Then it says,
“Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants.” (Leviticus 18:24-25)
Can the wrongful shedding of blood defile a land?
“So you shall not pollute the land where you are; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. Therefore do not defile the land which you inhabit, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.” (Numbers 35:34-35)
Can breaking covenant with God defile a land?
“The earth mourns and fades away, the world languishes and fades away; the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, and those who dwell in it are desolate.” (Isaiah 24:4-6)
Can idolatry defile a land?
“For my eyes are on all their was; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity hidden from My eyes. And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.” (Jeremiah 16:17-18)
IF the people of a land make a pact with satan to serve him, can that spiritual act really defile the land?
January 15th, 2010 | 8:14 am | #24
The CBN statement, found here, http://www.cbn.com/about/pressrelease_patrobertson_haiti.aspx , reads:
“On today’s The 700 Club, during a segment about the devastation, suffering and humanitarian effort that is needed in Haiti, Dr. Robertson also spoke about Haiti’s history. His comments were based on the widely-discussed 1791 slave rebellion led by Boukman Dutty at Bois Caiman, where the slaves allegedly made a famous pact with the devil in exchange for victory over the French. This history, combined with the horrible state of the country, has led countless scholars and religious figures over the centuries to believe the country is cursed. Dr. Robertson never stated that the earthquake was God’s wrath. If you watch the entire video segment, Dr. Robertson’s compassion for the people of Haiti is clear. He called for prayer for them. His humanitarian arm has been working to help thousands of people in Haiti over the last year, and they are currently launching a major relief and recovery effort to help the victims of this disaster. They have sent a shipment of millions of dollars worth of medications that is now in Haiti, and their disaster team leaders are expected to arrive tomorrow and begin operations to ease the suffering.”
January 15th, 2010 | 9:15 am | #25
[...] John Mark Reynolds on Pat Robertson’s statement that Haiti is under a [...]
January 15th, 2010 | 9:55 am | #26
The CBN statement is a classic example of adding insult to injury.
January 15th, 2010 | 10:12 am | #27
Talk to me about it, Paul, when you have developed something with the breadth and scope of an Operation Blessing, as Pat Robertson has done for such emergencies as this. When his critics have demonstrated tangible compassion on that kind of scale, as Robertson has done, then their kvetching about his lack of compassion won’t ring so hollow.
January 15th, 2010 | 10:28 am | #28
JMR -
You said “Robertson has proposed a bad theology, because he too easily equates any natural or man made disaster with Gods’ will…”
Now, I agree with most sentiments about Robertson that have been posted here. He seems to open his mouth too quickly, or has a filter that is not quite fine enough to catch all the things that it should, regardless of the amount of monetary relief he sends people. But I find what you write here bad theology in itself. What are we to say? That the earthquake wasn’t God’s will? That he didn’t want it to happen, but, you know, these things have been placed in motion and God would never intervene? Certainly human decisions and atrocities are much more difficult things to parse, but natural disasters should not be. Can we not affirm that God has brought this disaster upon people? Can we not say that there was both love and wrath present in the earthquake? Or does God have the capacity to love here and now only, and to only show wrath at the judgment?
Again, I don’t like what Robertson said, but I also don’t think that the correct biblical response is just to say “you know, God loves them…” like Franklin Graham said. Perhaps something along the lines of Hosea 6:1 is more appropriate: “Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn us, that he may heal us; he has struck us down, and he will bind us up…”
Perhaps I am making too much out of your words, and if I am, I apologize. But as a pastor I hear the unthoughtful response of God’s love too often from Christians who think that God’s love means never handing out anything difficult or bad. Perhaps this is God’s wrath, demonstrated that he might heal the nation of Haiti.
Let us continue to pray and send relief to the people of Haiti. And hope that they find the love of God through Christ our Lord.
January 15th, 2010 | 11:19 am | #29
Jeff: I would refer you to one of the world’s largest relief organizations Lutheran World Relief and, for that matter, LCMS World Relief and Human Care. Similarly, one of the nation’s largest human care operations is Lutheran Services in America, which is responsible for maintaining nearly 60% of all institutions for the aging.
Whatever good Mr. Robertson may be doing does not excuse or justify his absurd remarks.
It’s a shame CBN only added to the problem.
January 15th, 2010 | 11:46 am | #30
The difference, Paul, is that while you may contribute and support the above named organizations, Operation Blessing came into existence under Pat Robertson’s ministry and direction. It’s not just something he supports; its something he created as a ministry of compassion.
I don’t think his remarks are absurd, just that his history may be faulty. But the theology behind his remark is biblical, as I showed above.
His remarks were explanatory for his viewers, not a condemnation of Haiti. The timing might not have been good, but that is a quibble. Gotcha journalism and sound-bite media missed the larger context of what Robertson/CBN/Operation Blessing are about and how they are responding in tangible, compassionate ways to the crisis in Haiti.
January 15th, 2010 | 11:59 am | #31
Jeff, again, you are trying to make excuses where none are appropriate.
I’m sorry you can’t realize this.
January 15th, 2010 | 12:20 pm | #32
Not making excuses, Paul. I agree that the historical aspect of his remark is suspect and the timing of it may not have been good.
Just pointing out some facts, some context and some biblical theology. I do not think you have really addressed those, so your pronouncements and condescensions leave me unpersuaded of your opinion.
January 15th, 2010 | 1:35 pm | #33
Remember John 9:1-3? Could’ve been sin that caused it, but it wasn’t. Wrong assumption by them.
It’s never ok for us to declare why/if God did something unless He has actually already told us.
January 15th, 2010 | 2:22 pm | #34
“suspect”
“may not have been good”
More equivocations.
January 15th, 2010 | 2:42 pm | #35
Ben -
There’s a huge difference between why and if. Sure, we may not know WHY God did what he did, but we hardly have any room to ask “if” he did it. It might not be because of an egregious sin(s) by the Haitians – but God’s hand was certainly involved. The “if” in your statement should not be there. Check out the “all things” statements in places like Col. 1:15-20, Ephesians 1:11-23, and not least for the Christians in Haiti, Romans 8:28. God’s all encompassing sovereignty is the basis of the certainty of our hope in this world. God was not a bystander here – he was active.
January 15th, 2010 | 4:22 pm | #36
If I’m not mistaken, a number of years ago when a shocking disaster happened and 18 people were killed, there were those who tried to figure out if the people had been targeted for God’s wrath, what sins they had done, what vows had they taken, trying to figure out what got them in so much trouble with the Lord that he would see to their destruction like this. At another time, the local political ruler killed some people, again, the question of why came up.
A wise teacher was asked about it and all he said was, “Repent, or you too shall surely perish.” He did not speculate about vows with Satan. He even said that they were no more sinful than you and me.
I think that’s the best approach to take.
God’s “sovereignty” was not the concern of that man, rather, God’s desire to save.
January 15th, 2010 | 4:56 pm | #37
Doug –
I am not sure I am ready to say that God caused the earthquake in Haiti anymore than I am ready to say that God causes a killer to kill or rapist to rape. Bad things happen because we live in a fallen world. Even creation is fallen. Were there earthquakes in the Garden before the fall? Are there natural disasters in heaven? Will there be natural disasters on the New Earth? Natural disasters are the result of sin in the world. We cannot say for sure that God did or did not cause the earthquake in Haiti because He has not told us. The point of God’s sovereignty is that He can use anything for His glory – not that He is the source of everything good or bad that happens in the world.
I agree God was not/is not a bystander, but I do not agree to the statement that God was the cause of this disaster.
January 15th, 2010 | 5:01 pm | #38
I don’t think God caused the earthquake, but He did allow it to happen. That does not mean that He is disinterested — I think He cares about it very much.
January 15th, 2010 | 5:49 pm | #39
Came across this interesting report on Operation Blessing International, put out, not by CBN, but by Ministry Watch, a watchdog group, at http://www.ministrywatch.com/profile/operation-blessing-international.aspx
“Operation Blessing International (OBI) provides short-term relief and development assistance to economically disadvantaged people and victims of disaster throughout the world. In the United States, OBI focuses on providing food, clothing and other material assistance to inner-city and rural families facing financial hardship. Founded on November 14, 1978 by religious broadcaster, Pat Robertson, Operation Blessing International was originally intended to meet the needs of struggling individuals and families by providing items such as clothing, appliances, vehicles, etc., to be donated by viewers of The 700 Club. As of the present Operation Blessing has helped more than 155 million people in 96 countries and all 50 states as well as distributed goods valued at more than $500 million. Internationally, OBI emphasizes medical missions and resource development in under-served nations and countries requesting assistance. Operation Blessing International is a member of the Association of Evangelical Relief and Development Organizations and is registered with the Federal Emergency Management Association and the United States Agency for International Development. Contributions to OBI are fully tax deductible to the extent allowed by law. In addition, OBI is a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA).”
Of course, some might consider that adding insult to injury. But I think that is a pretty good track record. Pat Robertson’s OBI is doing in Haiti what it has done is some many crises elsewhere.
January 15th, 2010 | 7:07 pm | #40
God does not “rate” sins. There is no “better” or “worse” sin, other than blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.
The reason we need Jesus Christ is because even 1 sin makes us unclean in the eyes of the Lord. It doesn’t matter if you have committed 1 sin or 1 billion sins, you still need Jesus Christ for forgiveness.
This was an act of nature, not God’s anger.
January 15th, 2010 | 8:57 pm | #41
Only 500 million dollars since 1978. That’s barely over 16 million a year.
Let’s compare this to the annual income of CBN only last year of … ready for this?
Nearly 700 million dollars!
January 15th, 2010 | 9:01 pm | #42
Consider also this report:
* The most glaring issue with Operation Blessing is the fact that more than 90% of the operations donations are in the form of in-kind donations, not cash. So that rather than being a $200 million operation, Operation Blessing is really only a modest $10 million cash operation, with a staff of only 40 in 2004.
* Operation Blessing does not break out the expenditures for its various program activities. It describes 4 main program areas, but lumps them all together in a single program total. Again, this gives a misleading impression that the organization engages in extensive “ministry” activities, whereas in reality it is mainly involved in distribution of material.
* Salary expenditure for non-officer “management and general” personnel appears to be grossly inadequate for an organization of this size distributing in-kind goods. The stewardship requirements for in-kind distribution are considerable, if only to prevent diversion of donated goods to commercial purposes, and there cannot possibly be handled with $21,000 in staff salaries as shown in the FY 2004 Form 990. Recent news stories report that it is the practice of Operation Blessing to swap donated commodities for other consumer food products, which increases the risk of diversion and thus the need for more monitoring.
* The salary for COO William Horan is repored at $167,425 for 2004, but other employees paid by The Christian Broadcasting Network, Inc. are: Michael D. Little ($266,458), Randy Morell ($133, 246) and Gordon P. Robertson ($246,610) (this is Rev. Pat Robertson’s son). These salaries appear high for an organization primarily engaged in distribution of donated goods. It is also misleading to have salaries paid by another organization, because it gives a misleading impression of the “efficiency” of the charity.
* Finally, the figures reported are from 2004, because the 2005 figures are not available on-line, either from Operation Blessing or on Guidestar. The organization’s fiscal year ends in March, so the 2005 figures should be available now, nearly 10 months after the end of the fiscal year.
Source:
http://www.wheremostneeded.org/2006/01/observing_pat_r.html
January 15th, 2010 | 9:12 pm | #43
Consider also the following report:
Christian Broadcasting Network/700 Club (CBN) does not meet the following 5Standards for Charity Accountability.
Standard 4: Compensated Board Members – Not more than one or 10% (whichever is greater) directly or indirectly compensated person(s) serving as voting member(s) of the board. Compensated members shall not serve as the board’s chair or treasurer.
* CBN does not meet this Standard because according to its IRS Form 990 for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007, at least five of its board members were directly or indirectly compensated. In addition, the organization does not meet this Standard since the paid chief executive officer (CEO) also serves as the chair of the board.
Standard 11: Financial Statements – Make available to all, on request, complete annual financial statements prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. When total annual gross income exceeds $250,000, these statements should be audited in accordance with generally accepted auditing standards. For charities whose annual gross income is less than $250,000, a review by a certified public accountant is sufficient to meet this standard. For charities whose annual gross income is less than $100,000, an internally produced, complete financial statement is sufficient to meet this standard.
*
CBN does not meet this Standard because the financial statements for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2007 indicate that the audit was not completed in compliance with generally accepted accounting principles. According to the Independent Auditors’ Report, “…the Ministry does not have access to records to support the fair value of its interest in a charitable trust, or the related changes in fair value. U.S. generally accepted accounting principles require interests in charitable trusts to be reported at fair value. We were unable to apply audit procedures to the stated fair value of the interest in charitable trust of $67,297,000 as of March 31, 2007 and 2006, respectively.”
Standard 12: Detailed Functional Breakdown of Expenses – Include in the financial statements a breakdown of expenses (e.g., salaries, travel, postage, etc.) that shows what portion of these expenses was allocated to program, fund raising, and administrative activities. If the charity has more than one major program category, the schedule should provide a breakdown for each category.
* CBN does not meet this Standard because its financial statements did not include a detailed functional breakdown of expenses by natural classification (e.g., salaries, travel, postage, etc.) that shows what portion of these expenses was allocated to program, fund raising, and administrative activities.
Standard 16: Annual Report – Have an annual report available to all, on request, that includes: (a) the organization’s mission statement, (b) a summary of the past year’s program service accomplishments, (c) a roster of the officers and members of the board of directors, (d) financial information that includes (i) total income in the past fiscal year, (ii) expenses in the same program, fund raising and administrative categories as in the financial statements, and (iii) ending net assets.
* CBN does not meet this Standard because CBN has not responded to a request from the Alliance for a copy of a current annual report.
Standard 17: Web Site Disclosures – Include on any charity websites that solicit contributions, the same information that is recommended for annual reports, as well as the mailing address of the charity and electronic access to its most recent IRS Form 990.
* CBN does not meet this Standard because its website, http://www.cbn.com, does not include all of the recommended information for those charity websites that solicit for donations. Specifically, it does not include a board roster. The website also does not provide electronic access to the organization’s most recent IRS Form 990.
In addition, the BBB Wise Giving Alliance requested but did not receive complete information on the organization’s governance and oversight, effectiveness measures, finances, solicitation materials, donor privacy, and fundraising disclosures and is unable to verify the organization’s compliance with the following 11Standards for Charity Accountability: 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 13, 14, 15, 18, 19, and 20.
Christian Broadcasting Network / 700 Club (CBN) meets the remaining 4 Standards for Charity Accountability.
Source:
http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/religious/christian-broadcasting-network-700-club-in-virginia-beach-va-1390
January 15th, 2010 | 10:14 pm | #44
Rev. McCain, Ben and others -
I do not desire to be contentious, so if I am, please tell me and I will say no more on the topic. I also understand that this issue is not the first that should be raised in such tragic situations. However, to say that this happened outside of the providence of God is a mistake, in my opinion. After all, this is the same God who makes it rain on both the just and the unjust. The same God who clothes (actively!) the grass and feeds the birds will provide (actively!) for us. The same God who stops the sun, hardens hearts, punishes nations, brings and withholds rain, wind, mildew, locust, plague works out all things according to the purpose of his will (Ephesians 1:11). ALL THINGS. I’m not sure that Paul means for earthquakes to be the exemption from that “all”. Simply saying that God “allows” these things to happen isn’t quite enough – nature is not a personal force that moves, thinks and acts on its own. Certainly, the world runs on laws, but God is the one standing behind the laws, enacting and empowering them (the laws of nature themselves “hold together” in Christ Col. 1:17). These sentiments are not isolated – they make up part of the backbone of Scripture.
Furthermore, saying something like “natural disasters are a cause of sin in the world” indicates that this is part of the penalty for our sin, or even God’s wrath on our sin. The entire point of Luke 13:1-5 is that we ought to be surprised that such things don’t happen more often! These ought to make us focus on our sin, repent, and praise God for his mercy.
I hope that this has provoked you to think, as it has me. These discussions are worthwhile, as long as they build up our faith and obedience to Christ. So, whenever discussions like this come up, let us remember our bond in Christ, our responsibility to the world, and thank God that someday we will have definitive answers for these things!
January 16th, 2010 | 1:07 am | #45
Well, its true that he does charity work and he sometimes puts his mouth in the foor. Christians thru out history have described certain natural disasters as God wrth for their sins. Both Orthodox and Roman Catholics believe this way in the middle ages when it came to the two most famous plagues, the 6th century Justinian Plague and the Famous Black Death of the 14th century.
January 16th, 2010 | 1:11 am | #46
In the 6th century, of course the Orthodox were the Catholics and some historians sound more like modern theologicans in the orthodox church today like Procopius in his Persian Wars but not Secret History and Evagrius who states its a mytery why it happen but the commo man thought that God according to Evagrius’s was punishing them for their sins.
January 16th, 2010 | 2:58 am | #47
I need someone to help interpret this for me because what he said was just so unbelievable. Did Pat Robertson mean that Africans who were enslaved in Haiti and sought their freedom, had to therefore make a pact with Satan to have that freedom they desired. Was he saying Jesus wanted them to be enslaved and it was Satanic to seek their freedom? Because I am just so blown away (negatively) but this way of thinking.
January 16th, 2010 | 2:58 am | #48
He makes things really difficult because as a Conservative Christian you want to go around never having to apologize for your Faith but then I feel like we have to apologize after Pat Robertson makes remarks like that. It is a bit ironic his initials are “PR” because he is a public relations disaster for the church.
January 16th, 2010 | 1:38 pm | #49
[...] Pat Robertson’s Bad Theology and Insensitive Words - http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2010/01/pat-robertson-on-disasters-consistently-wrong/ [...]
January 16th, 2010 | 1:46 pm | #50
[...] if you need to explain to a skeptical friend why you disagree with Robertson, here’s a good start from the Evangel blog. It makes a short point and moves on, like we should probably do on this [...]
January 16th, 2010 | 4:11 pm | #51
“So, whenever discussions like this come up, let us remember our bond in Christ, our responsibility to the world, and thank God that someday we will have definitive answers for these things!”
Well said Doug. I appreciate such discussions but also recognize that many cannot engage without becoming angry or upset when another party does not agree with them. On non-essential issues such as this discussion, humility is the best quality to have. Thank you for your attitude. Now, what/whoever the cause of the earthquake, may God use His people to bring His hope and peace to the Haitian people in the aftermath of this time of tragedy.
January 18th, 2010 | 1:04 pm | #52
A sensitive and thoughtful article which I completely agree with. I’d like to suggest another area of caution- measuring prosperity. The Dominican Republic is doing okay but it’s not prosperous, tourist resorts do not make a country rich. I’ve worked and visited the DR several times. The resorts are too often fantasy worlds that amplify huge inequalities and poverty in the wider society.
January 18th, 2010 | 4:08 pm | #53
Excellent point. Robertson’s suggestion that the DR is some kind of thriving, prosperous nation is nearly as absurd as his repetition of an old legend. UN studies of the DR reveal that the DR is ranked #71 in the world for resource availability, #79 for human development, and #14 in the world for resource mismanagement. There is an ever growing chasm between the rich and poor in the DR, providing a fertile ground for civil unrest and trouble.
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