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    Sunday, November 29, 2009, 10:47 PM

    This summer I had a class in theology which I sometimes discussed. This class was part of the “late vocations” program offered by in our area by the OCA. Currently, I’m taking the second of these classes, and true to form the reading/work load has been somewhat larger than expected. We’re taking a “great books” approach to the Old Testament, and in our 8 week class … reading and discussing the entire Old Testament …. and for the technically minded, using the Codex Alexandrinus for our canon … which means that the books we read are somewhat extended from the standard Protestant even Catholic set of books. In the below, I’m going to explore a question/point raised in class which I would like to explore in more detail.

    Throughout the Old Testament, but certainly notable in Judges through Kings IV (the Orthodox church uses the Septuagint as its basis for the Old Testament, Samuel I and II and Kings I & II become Kings I-IV) there is constant influence from external polytheistic religions. There is not just military conquest and battle back and forth between nations being portrayed, but we find priests contending and confronting those following other gods and abandoning those of other religions. There is a marked contrast between how, for example, Elijah deals with the priests of Baal (Kings III 18) and how today we confront those who believe differently in this modern age. 

    This contrast is located deep in how we view the world and think about religion, science and the structure of things. Elijah and those early Israeli prophets (and I suspect their polytheistic counterparts) didn’t react in a modern way to the existence of other beliefs. Elijah didn’t argue or proclaim that Baal and the other gods weren’t real. The incineration of wet cows on a hill didn’t prove that Baal and his priests weren’t worshipping real gods and that he was, but that instead the claim was only that his God, the God of the people of Israel, was the more powerful. The demonstration was that YHWH, the God of Israel, was a more effective God. These people weren’t stupid. They knew that Baal and the various gods of other peoples, the Hittite, the Egyptian, the Assyrian, the Philistines and so on all had different founding creation stories and for that matter wildly different ways of viewing of the relationship between God/god(s) and how that connected to the universe and man’s place within it. The reason that these differences in viewpoint and description are seen today as inconsistent but back then were not was not that we are clever and they are not. But that the nature of the difference which we highlight was not important to them.

    Today, we have similar situations. In essence today, we have the secular argument that science in opposition to religion burns its cows more effectively but the conclusion is different. The conclusion, unlike in the case of the Philistine/Israel argument, is that therefore “your god isn’t real” … and not that he isn’t as powerful as mine. This carries over to other meta-religious conversations about religion and the existence of god(s) (or God). The Hindu religion, Buddhism, Islam, Hebrew, and Christian faiths it is claimed can’t all co-exist logically because they have different statements about the nature of God, about creation and the universe, and the place of man in that universe. For Elijah, following one faith did not mean that the other was therefore wrong, which is how the modern analysis would insist. In the early years of the unfolding of our understanding of the Quantum nature of reality, there are a number of distinct methods, the Schroedinger wave equations, the Heisenberg density matrices, S-matrices, and path integrals finish out the list. This in a way is analogous to the situation noted above. We have distinct ways of viewing the world, which are apparently logically inconsistent. Yet, the suggestion here is that the logical inconsistencies are not crucial and that instead effectiveness is more important.

    One of the primary arguments between the secular atheists and the religious of the world is that materialism has been so effective. This is misleading. Materialism has indeed been effective, if the question at hand is how to make a dishwasher or an airplane. However that is unfortunately not the question that is most important. The question, which materialism has basically dodged, concerns finding human happiness and fulfilment. Teleology is not part of the palette for materialism, i.e., it’s not a valid question.  And this is an issue, because failing to answer and confront these questions is a major effectiveness problem.

    2 Comments

      Frank Turk
      November 29th, 2009 | 11:41 pm | #1

      So Ahab sent to all the people of Israel and gathered the prophets together at Mount Carmel. And Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the YHVH is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.”

      Mark — It’s interesting that Elijah came to the people not asking, “who is more effective?” but instead, “who is God?”

      That is, “who is ‘elohim’? who is truly the ruler of all things?” It is followed by this:

      And the people did not answer him a word. Then Elijah said to the people, “I, even I only, am left a prophet of the YHVH, but Baal’s prophets are men. Let two bulls be given to us, and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. And you call upon the name of your god, and I will call upon the name of the YHVH, and the God who answers by fire, he is God.”

      I think it’s not a question of “who is more effective?” I think Elijah is saying that because he is specifically sent by YHVH, he has the authority; the men who serve Baal are just guys standing around, not sent by the true God.

      Elijah’s question is not about who is more effective, and this test is not about whether Baal and YHVH can coexist: this is a question of who has the authority to receive Israel’s worship, and who is actually “God”.

      FWIW, I think that the argument is still the same argument — and when “materialism” is subservient to YHVH in Christ, it has rained down blessing for this world. When “materialism” has instead made itself superior to Christ and YHVH with its prophets of science demanding to be morally-superior to the author of life and the law-giver for the sciences, it rains down curses.

      Truth Unites... and Divides
      November 30th, 2009 | 3:04 am | #2

      Mark Olson: “This class was part of the “late vocations” program offered by in our area by the OCA. …

      But that the nature of the difference which we highlight was not important to them.

      Yet, the suggestion here is that the logical inconsistencies are not crucial and that instead effectiveness is more important.”

      Dear Mark,

      With apologies in advance, I’d like to transpose your argument (in a very rough sense) to the buzz about the Manhattan Declaration and you being an Orthodox “Christian”. There was deep concern (others may phrase it differently) from Protestants who opposed the MD that the MD obscured and/or blurred the Gospel. They disagreed and were disappointed with fellow Protestants who signed and supported the MD. I could show you quotes saying that it’s wrong to call those who are not Christians, Christians. And that they (they being the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church) were enemies of the Gospel. Albeit qualified that there are indeed (some) Christians in the RCC and EOC but in spite of and not because of the doctrinal teachings in those Churches.

      Well, when you wrote “But that the nature of the difference which we highlight was not important to them” and “Yet, the suggestion here is that the logical inconsistencies are not crucial and that instead effectiveness is more important” it reminded me of some of the reasons why I joyfully signed the Manhattan Declaration.

      Anyways, I want to thank you for being a co-blogger for Evangel and I don’t think that you being an Orthodox “Christian” would or should obscure the Gospel for Evangel.

      Pax.

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