I’m Sick and Tired of Lewis and Chesterton
Twice in the past week, I thought I’d said something relatively clever only to have someone say, “It’s funny that you say that: I was reading something that C. S. Lewis wrote about that very idea not long ago . . . .” If it’s not Lewis, it’s G. K. Chesterton: “Chesterton, of course, pointed out that . . . .” I swear, I am sick to death of pulling myself up onto a new limb of thinking only to find one of those two guys sitting there smiling smugly.
First, are those guys still writing books and essays from beyond the grave? I could swear that their “complete works” have not been completed. Every time I turn around, I find something else they wrote that I have somehow missed. I can only imagine what it would be like if they had blogged in addition to publishing their longer works.
Second, I am constantly reminded that the Preacher of Ecclesiastes was right when he reminded us, “Is there anything whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already of old time, which was before us” (1:10). For some reason, most of us believe our thoughts to be immensely wiser or more innovative than those of past thinker. I suppose I could call this epiphany “chronological snobbery,” an arrogant belief that what we think now is far superior to what the ancients had thought.
No . . . wait a minute . . . blast that C. S. Lewis!
November 24th, 2009 | 11:40 pm | #1
I’m Sick and Tired of Lewis and Chesterton
I audibly gasped when I read this line. ; )
November 24th, 2009 | 11:54 pm | #2
Funny you should mention that. I recall Lewis complaining about the exact same thing….
Actually, I can’t. Just messing with you.
November 25th, 2009 | 1:03 am | #3
Actually all of what they said is in Plato. As Lewis noted.
November 25th, 2009 | 8:15 am | #4
This is too funny.
One of the reasons I frequent sites with thinkers like you is that in the ‘real world’ people quote Oprah and refer to the contestants of other TV shows by their first names as if I know them also. I’d rather entertain thoughts that had already been considered than just entertain my thoughts.
November 25th, 2009 | 9:14 am | #5
Sorry, but not only do you have to get in line behind CSL and GKC, you also have to get in line behind the line of thousands of others who found out years ago that they have to get in line behind CSL and GKC. Wow. That was so convoluted that I bet even GKC would be impressed.
November 25th, 2009 | 10:58 am | #6
John Mark,
With all due respect, Chesterton has more roots in Aquinas than Plato. Which is why he is so vastly superior to Lewis.
Best,
Matt
November 25th, 2009 | 12:25 pm | #7
Matt,
Aquinas has roots in Plato so I don’t see the point. Are you being Chestertonian in saying something obviously false (“Chesterton is vastly superior to Lewis.”) and then defending it?
John Mark
November 25th, 2009 | 1:07 pm | #8
Funny, here is a quote from Chesterton as to why I get tired of hearing about him from Protestants.
I’m just sayin…
November 25th, 2009 | 1:30 pm | #9
Your blog reminded me of this article by Frederica Mathewes-Green.
http://www.frederica.com/writings/why-c-s-lewis-is-so-irritating-part-1.html
November 25th, 2009 | 2:52 pm | #10
Thanks, Orthodoxdj, for that link. Like I said, nothing new under the sun. Er, like the Preacher said . . . And so it goes, eh? ;-)
November 25th, 2009 | 3:12 pm | #11
John Mark,
If by “roots” you mean outright rejection, then yes, Aquinas does have roots in Plato. : )
You have to admit: Lewis is like a poor man’s Chesterton. Read Chesterton long enough and you’ll find everything Lewis said, except in more entertaining fashion. And since we know you like your entertainment, I should think you would find your loyalties with him….
But then, I can hope, can’t I?
Mark,
Yes, it turns out Chesterton became Catholic. And, largely due to the temperment of his friend Hillaire Belloc, he became increasingly vitriolic. And that’s sad to me. At this point, I am tempted to wax about babies and bathwater, but will spare myself the effort.
Best,
matt
November 25th, 2009 | 3:44 pm | #12
We think of Aquinas as following Aristotle, don’t we? And let me say that I love me some Aristotle, much more fun to read than Plato for my money.
But to Gene’s point, Chesterton practically was a blogger since he wrote an incredible amount of regular material for G.K.’s Weekly!
November 25th, 2009 | 4:23 pm | #13
Hunter:
You will note that Saint Thomas quoted the Platonists quite often . . . and that he agrees with Aristotle most in cases where Plato and Aristotle are not nearly as far apart as people like, say Matt, believe.
John Mark
November 25th, 2009 | 4:32 pm | #14
Matt:
You might try counting (just for fun mind you!) the number of times that Aquinas quotes the Platonist philosophers with approval. You might see how central the disagreements between Plato and Aristotle are compared to the amount they agree.
Or you could just read Chesterton and read Chesterton and read Chesterton . . . since there is a good bit to read.
Chesterton is the common man’s Lewis . . . he said everything Lewis said and lots of other things Lewis is glad he did not say. Chesterton on say Mussolini is an eye opener.
Read Chesterton long enough, and you can read Chesterton a long, long time, and you will discover he said everything Lewis said five or six times in one essay. He also will have written another essay in which he says the same thing again . . . in another context!
Now I like entertainment and am long winded myself, but that does not mean I would prefer (say) Star Trek to Shakespeare.
“Conscience of the King” contains a good bit of Hamlet and Macbeth jumbled up in one entertaining episode (along with calling Kirk the Caesar of the stars) and for a good time it is hard to beat . . . but I still think Hamlet is a tad bit better, if not as pure entertainment.
C.S. Lewis: what Chesterton would have written with a better education and a more temperate style.
November 25th, 2009 | 4:44 pm | #15
I assume (and hope!) nobody is taking this thread seriously!
I refuse to use emoticons, but to our readers:
We are all writing tongue in cheek. As Lewis would say, “It is all in Plato.”
November 25th, 2009 | 4:47 pm | #16
So let’s settle this once and for all: If there were a fight, who would win — it’s Ransom vs. Father Brown?
No, Chuck Norris is not an option.
November 25th, 2009 | 5:34 pm | #17
Ransom? Dimble could beat up Father Brown.
November 25th, 2009 | 6:07 pm | #18
Collin, Fr. Brown, hand’s down. What’s more, he would have singlehandedly defeated the N.I.C.E., rather than sitting in his chair waiting for Merlin to do his work for him. : )
And no, I am not above the use of emoticons.
My dear John Mark,
If you wish to say that Aquinas is Platonic inasmuch that Aristotle agrees with Plato, then that is a proposition to which I can happily and readily assent.
What’s more, while I am quite aware of Aquinas’s complimentary quotings of the neo-platonists. However, the sheer number of positive affirmations does not an argument make, as leaves unacknowledged whether such affirmations were for their Platonism or for other ideas (that, in fact, he may have gleaned from Aristotle) or the relative number of positive affirmations of Aristotle and his ilk (not to mention the frequency and strength of his critiques of the Platonists).
But, of course, we should expect many such references. After all, few historical figures wrote more than Aquinas. You can, as you say, read, and read, and read him.
All that demonstrates, in fact, was that Aquinas could be friends with people that he had deep disagreements with. Much like his best successor, Mr. Chesterton.
Everyone recognizes Chesterton’s errors in judgment in praising Mussolini (though he rejected totalitarianism and was one of only a handful of British to warn about Germany’s rise). But even great men do not escape such errors in judgment–even Churchill wrote a letter to the Prime Minister in the 1930s stating that Japan would never invade Australia and that war with her was impossible.
As for me and my house, we shall read both. But we shall seek to imitate Chesterton. Lewis may have written about joy and earnestly sought it, but Chesterton (perhaps more than anyone in the modern era) found it.
In loving cheekiness,
matt
November 26th, 2009 | 9:36 am | #19
My wife just asked why I kept laughing out loud, and when I tried to explain this comment thread she laughed at me instead.
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