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	<title>Comments on: Moral Reform &amp; Ministry to Women: an excerpt</title>
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	<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2009/10/moral-reform-ministry-to-women-an-excerpt/</link>
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		<title>By: Jake Horner</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2009/10/moral-reform-ministry-to-women-an-excerpt/#comment-684</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Horner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sarah: Point well taken.

It is especially important to undertake this discussion with a proper understanding of Scripture and sound theology. We also have to remember that God&#039;s revelation in Scripture is normative for culture, not vice versa. 

 A couple observations:

- we live in a world broken by sin which extends to every part of our being and experience.

- every experience of family this world has ever known is post fall.

- our current state:

&quot;Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you,&quot;

and

&quot;Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.&quot;

is a consequence of the fall and is expressed in the covenant curse for violation of the covenant of works [Genesis] and is spoken into a world marred by sin and the experience of that covenant curse [Paul].

- There is virtually no information on the pre-fall relationship between the Adam and Ezer. We assume that it completely fulfilled the paradigm of God&#039;s design for creation, and His image, as God pronounced His work &quot;very good.&quot;

Living as we do in the postlapsarian world, the one fundamental requirement of all relationships is grace. Women bring something unique to the table that men just can&#039;t, that being their experience and understanding of experience. We men would do well to listen, and then respond with the love of Christ. As crazy as it might sound, the church ought to work to recover as much of the pre-fall state of affairs as is possible in this broken world and not perpetuate the patriarchal system which characterizes this sinful world as part of the curse.

One aspect of this is inclusion of and ministry to those on the fringes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah: Point well taken.</p>
<p>It is especially important to undertake this discussion with a proper understanding of Scripture and sound theology. We also have to remember that God&#8217;s revelation in Scripture is normative for culture, not vice versa. </p>
<p> A couple observations:</p>
<p>- we live in a world broken by sin which extends to every part of our being and experience.</p>
<p>- every experience of family this world has ever known is post fall.</p>
<p>- our current state:</p>
<p>&#8220;Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you,&#8221;</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>&#8220;Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.&#8221;</p>
<p>is a consequence of the fall and is expressed in the covenant curse for violation of the covenant of works [Genesis] and is spoken into a world marred by sin and the experience of that covenant curse [Paul].</p>
<p>- There is virtually no information on the pre-fall relationship between the Adam and Ezer. We assume that it completely fulfilled the paradigm of God&#8217;s design for creation, and His image, as God pronounced His work &#8220;very good.&#8221;</p>
<p>Living as we do in the postlapsarian world, the one fundamental requirement of all relationships is grace. Women bring something unique to the table that men just can&#8217;t, that being their experience and understanding of experience. We men would do well to listen, and then respond with the love of Christ. As crazy as it might sound, the church ought to work to recover as much of the pre-fall state of affairs as is possible in this broken world and not perpetuate the patriarchal system which characterizes this sinful world as part of the curse.</p>
<p>One aspect of this is inclusion of and ministry to those on the fringes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Austin</title>
		<link>http://firstthings.com/blogs/evangel/2009/10/moral-reform-ministry-to-women-an-excerpt/#comment-680</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think this is an excellent point to raise. While I have been wondering in recent years how much of the stay at home portion of your post is culturally rather than biblically based, I think your main point is crucial. Whatever the biblical norm of the family is, many in a fallen world come up short. This is sometimes their responsibility, and sometimes not. We, the body of Christ, must help the women &quot;on the fringes&quot; meet the challenges they face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is an excellent point to raise. While I have been wondering in recent years how much of the stay at home portion of your post is culturally rather than biblically based, I think your main point is crucial. Whatever the biblical norm of the family is, many in a fallen world come up short. This is sometimes their responsibility, and sometimes not. We, the body of Christ, must help the women &#8220;on the fringes&#8221; meet the challenges they face.</p>
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